Why is Calvinism so dangerous? #13 (Wrath vs Love, and Conclusion)
[In this series, I'm breaking the long post "Why is Calvinism so dangerous?" into bite-sized pieces.]
13.
(Hang in there, almost done!) And lastly, I think the Bible holds God's wrath, glory, and love in balance. But Calvinism overemphasizes God's wrath/glory and underemphasizes His love.
(Hang in there, almost done!) And lastly, I think the Bible holds God's wrath, glory, and love in balance. But Calvinism overemphasizes God's wrath/glory and underemphasizes His love.
As I said, they believe God doesn't even really love all people, only the elect. They believe it brings God glory to predestine most people to hell, to cause people to be unbelievers so that He can get glory for exercising His justice/wrath against sin. And since it's about His glory, we just have to accept this Calvinist teaching. Because we are too tiny to understand it.
(But of course we can't understand it. You can't understand an unbiblical, imbalanced, illogical, contradictory theology!)
Yes, God's glory should be held up high. The highest. But to do this, Calvinists reduce humans too low, lower than what God says. They base our value only on the "glory" God gets through us. (And for the record, God does not cause people to be unbelievers so that He can punish them in hell for His glory.)
A major error of Calvinists is that they take a biblical concept and extend it too far, beyond what Scripture teaches. If the Bible shows God plans and causes one thing, Calvinists think it's even more biblical to say God plans and causes all things. If God is sovereign, then it's even better to make Him so sovereign that it does away with free-will. If it's humble to submit to God and trust that He is in control over all, then it's even more humble for Calvinists to submit to the idea that God actively controls/micromanages everything, even sin and evil. Etc.
But once you go outside of what the Bible says, you are creating a false theology, your own god. And refusing to take God at His word is definitely not glorifying to Him!
[And do you wanna hear something interesting? According to John Calvin (in his Institutes Book 1, Chapter 14, Section 15), Satan's goal is to extinguish God's glory. Yet according to Calvinism, God causes everything that happens for His own glory. So if God controls Satan, as Calvin and Calvinists believe, then God is causing Satan to try to extinguish God's glory, for God's glory. Interesting. Self-sabotaging. Schizophrenic. And yet, what does the Bible say? That a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. So either God cannot stand because He is divided against Himself ... or Calvinism is wrong.]
But God Himself believes we have value and loves us tremendously, enough to send Jesus to die for all of our sins, no matter how "low and insignificant" we are in comparison to Him. Just so we could have a relationship with Him in heaven. Because He wants it. Because He wants us. God doesn't love us because we deserve it, but because He wanted to. Because that's the kind of God He is.
If God Himself says that we matter greatly to Him, that we're worth the price of Jesus's blood (not because of anything we are or do, just because God values us that much even if we don't deserve it), then how much does it glorify Him for Calvinists to spread the idea that God only really cares about Himself and His glory, and that we have no value other than the glory God can squeeze from us?
(See my posts "Are We Only Here For God's Glory? What About His Love?" and "Is God Only Concerned About His Glory and Being Famous?")
Here is an excerpt from my "Letter to our elders regarding Calvinism growing in our church", regarding this very thing:
Another reason I don't care for our Calvinist pastor's preaching is that it's all information for the head, theological academic stuff. It's not preaching for the heart, for the hurting heart, for life. There's no encouragement in there, no "God loves you and you matter to Him," no "let's figure out how to get through these hard trials of life together," etc. It's always just more theological and academic information for the mind.
Calvinist teaching is always loaded with how depraved we are, how insignificant we should feel before God, how virtually worthless we are apart from the glory God gets through us, about how God has predetermined everything, about how we have no effect on God or on our lives, about how our choices are not really our choices because we are just acting out the parts God's already written for us, about how our eternity has already been decided for us and we can't change it, and about how God causes everything but we are still accountable. And how we don't have to understand how that works, we just have to accept it ... or else we'll be dishonoring God. (Which is kinda ironic because if we bring God dishonor it would have to be because He caused us to bring Him dishonor. Because, according to Calvinism, God causes everything.)
But sometimes, we just need to be reminded of how much God loves us, how valuable we are to Him, how He can and will help us through this hard life. But when the sermons are all about God being so far above us, about how low in the dirt we should view ourselves, about God only being concerned with His own glory and how we should only be concerned with that too ... well, it's really hard to connect with a God like that, to want a relationship with a God like that, to feel like He wants a relationship with us.
Sometimes we don't need another theological beating. Sometimes we just need a heavenly hug.
And it's interesting because in this link, the writer tells us that a Calvinist pastor usually avoids messages about how God loves you and Jesus died for you. They have to avoid these because they don't know, according to their Calvinism, if God loves everyone in the audience or if Jesus died for everyone in the audience. Because, according to Calvinists, God only loved the elect and Jesus only died for the elect. So you won't hear those general "God loves you" kinds of messages from them.
Calvinists are not about God's love. They're all about God's glory, our insignificance, His ultimate control, our complete inability to do anything. Calvinists like to remind us regularly about how we are only here for God's glory, so that He can glorify Himself through us. I have no problem with God being glorified and with bringing Himself glory in what He does (that's only appropriate), but sometimes it's nice to hear that He made us because He loves us, because He wants a relationship with us, not just because He is looking for another way to bring Himself glory.
I don't think God made us just for His glory. I think He also made us for His enjoyment. Because He wants people to love, and He wants people to love Him. Because it brings Him joy. I found a verse - 2 Corinthians 5:4-5 - about one of the reasons why God made us, and this passage doesn't say it's only all about His glory: "... we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. Now it is God who made us for this very purpose ..."
To me, this sounds like the very reason God made us was so that we could have eternal life in heaven with Him. He wants us in heaven with Him. And that is the reason He made us. Even though He is glorified through everything, I think one reason He made us is because He wanted us, not just because He needed to glorify Himself more. And a God who truly loves us and wants a relationship with us is a God I want to get close to and to love too.
What is it that Paul prayed about for the Ephesians?
"And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge - that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God." (Ephesians 3:17-19)
God is not just about using us to get more glory. God was completely complete in Himself before we ever came along. He needs nothing from us.
But He does want us! He wants us to know His love fully, deeply. Knowing His love is what will fill us completely with the fullness of God - not reducing ourselves to such tiny, insignificant worms who are only here because God wanted to bring Himself more glory.
God made us out of love! God wants us to come to Him, to spend eternity with Him, because of love!
Calvinist teaching is always loaded with how depraved we are, how insignificant we should feel before God, how virtually worthless we are apart from the glory God gets through us, about how God has predetermined everything, about how we have no effect on God or on our lives, about how our choices are not really our choices because we are just acting out the parts God's already written for us, about how our eternity has already been decided for us and we can't change it, and about how God causes everything but we are still accountable. And how we don't have to understand how that works, we just have to accept it ... or else we'll be dishonoring God. (Which is kinda ironic because if we bring God dishonor it would have to be because He caused us to bring Him dishonor. Because, according to Calvinism, God causes everything.)
But sometimes, we just need to be reminded of how much God loves us, how valuable we are to Him, how He can and will help us through this hard life. But when the sermons are all about God being so far above us, about how low in the dirt we should view ourselves, about God only being concerned with His own glory and how we should only be concerned with that too ... well, it's really hard to connect with a God like that, to want a relationship with a God like that, to feel like He wants a relationship with us.
Sometimes we don't need another theological beating. Sometimes we just need a heavenly hug.
And it's interesting because in this link, the writer tells us that a Calvinist pastor usually avoids messages about how God loves you and Jesus died for you. They have to avoid these because they don't know, according to their Calvinism, if God loves everyone in the audience or if Jesus died for everyone in the audience. Because, according to Calvinists, God only loved the elect and Jesus only died for the elect. So you won't hear those general "God loves you" kinds of messages from them.
Calvinists are not about God's love. They're all about God's glory, our insignificance, His ultimate control, our complete inability to do anything. Calvinists like to remind us regularly about how we are only here for God's glory, so that He can glorify Himself through us. I have no problem with God being glorified and with bringing Himself glory in what He does (that's only appropriate), but sometimes it's nice to hear that He made us because He loves us, because He wants a relationship with us, not just because He is looking for another way to bring Himself glory.
I don't think God made us just for His glory. I think He also made us for His enjoyment. Because He wants people to love, and He wants people to love Him. Because it brings Him joy. I found a verse - 2 Corinthians 5:4-5 - about one of the reasons why God made us, and this passage doesn't say it's only all about His glory: "... we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. Now it is God who made us for this very purpose ..."
To me, this sounds like the very reason God made us was so that we could have eternal life in heaven with Him. He wants us in heaven with Him. And that is the reason He made us. Even though He is glorified through everything, I think one reason He made us is because He wanted us, not just because He needed to glorify Himself more. And a God who truly loves us and wants a relationship with us is a God I want to get close to and to love too.
What is it that Paul prayed about for the Ephesians?
"And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge - that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God." (Ephesians 3:17-19)
God is not just about using us to get more glory. God was completely complete in Himself before we ever came along. He needs nothing from us.
But He does want us! He wants us to know His love fully, deeply. Knowing His love is what will fill us completely with the fullness of God - not reducing ourselves to such tiny, insignificant worms who are only here because God wanted to bring Himself more glory.
God made us out of love! God wants us to come to Him, to spend eternity with Him, because of love!
"For God so loved the world..."
My heart is aching for some good, godly encouragement about God's love. For some practical messages about how He'll carry us through the hard times and how His love for us spurs us on to love Him more, etc. I don't need more academic information, especially when it's loaded with Calvinism. My soul is drying up at this church. Ugh! But that's my own personal thoughts about this. And yet, I know I'm not the only one thinking it. Ugh! Ugh! Ugh!
My heart is aching for some good, godly encouragement about God's love. For some practical messages about how He'll carry us through the hard times and how His love for us spurs us on to love Him more, etc. I don't need more academic information, especially when it's loaded with Calvinism. My soul is drying up at this church. Ugh! But that's my own personal thoughts about this. And yet, I know I'm not the only one thinking it. Ugh! Ugh! Ugh!
(Added May 2023) Does the Bible emphasize only His glory? Does it say that He only cares about Himself and how much glory He can get from us? Does it say that God causes people to be unbelievers so that He can put them in hell for His glory? (Find me one verse - just one - that says this!)
Let's see what the Bible says about the kind of God He is and what's on His heart:
1 John 3:16: "This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us...." [Did He die only for His glory? Or did He die because of His love for us?]
Ephesians 2:4: "But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions..." [Why did God give us life in Jesus? For glory? Or for love?]
1 John 3:1: "How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God!"
1 John 4:9,16-18: "This is how God showed His love among us: He sent His one and only Son into the world that we might live through Him.... And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like Him. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear ..." [God showed what? Love. We rely on what? Love. God is what? Love. Whoever lives in what? Love. We have confidence because what is made complete in us? Love. What drives out fear? That's right: love.]
Romans 8:37-39: "Now, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons ... neither anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Seems like God's love for us is a pretty big theme in the Bible, one of His main reasons for creating and dying for people.
And He doesn't just love believers ("the elect," as Calvinists would call it), but He loves all people:
John 3:16-17: "For God so loved the world ... God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."
1 John 4:19: "We love because he first loved us." [And when did He love us? When we were still sinners...]
Romans 5:8: "But God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." [Are we all sinners, or are only the elect sinners? If Jesus died for sinners, then He died for all.]
Luke 19:10: "For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost." [Were we all lost before being saved, or just "the elect"? If we were all lost, then Jesus came for us all. But ... an interesting conundrum ... if Jesus came for the lost and if (in Calvinism) Jesus came only for the elect, then it means only the elect were "lost". (And then what would that make the non-elect?) But if, as Calvinists believe, the elect were predestined to heaven before they were ever born - if they were always saved, always on their way to heaven, never on their way to hell - then it would mean they were never lost at any point in time, which would mean that Jesus didn't come for them - because Luke 19:10 clearly says He came for the lost. Can you see the conundrum? Likewise, Luke 5:32 says "I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." And so if Jesus came to call the unrighteous and if (in Calvinism) Jesus came to call only the elect, then only the elect are unrighteous. But contradictorily, if the elect were always saved before the beginning of time, then they were always "righteous" in God's eyes, which means that Jesus didn't come for them because He didn't come for the "righteous." Can you see it? I know this is twisting Scripture a bit, but maybe we should use it on Calvinists to beat them at their own game. It's a catch-22. Ask them if the elect were always considered righteous in God's eyes, if they were always "found". If they say "no," they'd essentially be saying the elect were not always saved, not always predestined to heaven, which would contradict (their misuse of and misunderstanding of) Eph. 1:4 and Rev. 13:8. But if they say "yes," then hit them with Luke 19:10 and Luke 5:32, showing that Jesus came for the lost and the unrighteous (which the elect never really were), and watch them squirm. Just for fun.]
Ezekiel 33:11: "Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, O house of Israel?'" [God wants all people, even the wicked, to repent and be saved. That's how much He loves us all.]
2 Peter 3:9: "... He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."
Romans 11:32: "For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all." [In His mercy, He offers eternal life to all people. It's up to us if we accept it or not.]
God loves all people. And we know this because the Bible tells us so.
Of course, I don't mean that He's always pleased all the time with all people equally. I'm not talking about God's feelings towards us and what we do. He does feel differently towards us when we do evil compared to when we do good. But I'm talking about God's over-arching saving love - a love that wants all people to be saved, even wicked people; a love that loves sinners so much that He wants to save them from their sin. God loved all people enough to send Jesus to die for us all, so that we all could have eternal life in heaven. His love paid the penalty for all our sins and so eternal life is offered to all, but it's up to us to accept or reject it. And if we reject it, we go to hell.
This is far different than the Calvinist god who only loved "the elect" enough to save them but who created the non-elect so that he could hate them and cause them to reject him and go to hell so that he could get worshipped for showing off his justice by punishing sin ... a god who (according to my Calvinist pastor) loves himself most and worships himself, and so he must do whatever he can for more glory and worship for himself, even if it's predestining people to hell (and by golly, we'd better be okay with that because "it's for his glory"!) ... a god who preplans/causes all sin, evil, and unbelief because it pleases him and glorifies him (but then he punishes the people for what he caused).
Is that really "glorifying"? Is that really "justice"? Can a god like that be trusted? And would a god like that - who loves himself above all, who uses people as mere tools for getting more glory for himself, who is glorified by causing all our sin and evil and unbelief - care at all about our feelings, about healing our broken hearts or comforting us in our pain or soothing our fears?
The Calvinist god wouldn't.
But the God of the Bible does:
Isaiah 61:1: "The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord is on me... He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted..."
Psalm 34:18: "The Lord is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit."
1 Peter 5:7: "Cast all your anxiety on Him because He cares for you."
Isaiah 40:11,29,31: "He tends His flock like a shepherd: He gathers the lambs in His arms and carries them close to His heart; He gently leads those that have young... He gives strength to the weary and increases the power of the weak… Those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary; they will walk and not be faint.”
Isaiah 41:10,13: "So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with My righteous right hand… For I am the Lord, your God, who takes hold of your right hand and says to you, ‘Do not fear; I will help you.’”
The God of the Bible doesn't just care about Himself, but He truly cares about us too. All of us. All that we go through. All that we struggle with. And He is not only about His glory, but He is also about His love. It was His love for us that held Him on the cross, that made Him die in our place to offer us life. And it's His incredible, huge, self-sacrificial love that humbles us and makes us want to love Him in return.
[Some of my favorite songs: Oh, What Love by The City Harmonic and I Am by Crowder and Hallelujah Christmas by Cloverton and Sweetly Broken by Jeremy Riddle and Secret Ambition by Michael W. Smith. How could you not love a God like this, a God who loved us this much even though we are so human?]
But Calvi-god is only about himself and his glory, a glory he gets by causing sin and evil and unbelief (but then he punishes us for it). And this imbalance - this Calvinist misunderstanding of God's character - destroys His righteousness, holiness, justice, trustworthiness, love, mercy, grace, goodness, the gospel, His Word, etc. That's some serious collateral damage! A heavy price for a little bit of extra "glory".
Question: Would a "glory hog" like Calvi-god share his glory with pathetic little meat-puppets like us? Would Calvi-god, who only cares about getting more and more glory, even causing evil and sin to get it, share any of that hard-won glory with tiny humans who are mere tools for getting more glory for himself?
No, he wouldn't.
But the God of the Bible would: "He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ." (2 Thess. 2:14)
The God of the Bible calls us to eternal life through the gospel so that we can share in Christ's glory. He doesn't only care about Himself, about getting more and more glory. He cares about people too. He loves us so much that He's willing to share some glory with us. Not because we deserve it, but because that's the kind of God He is - a good, generous, loving, self-sacrificial God, a God who's not glorified by causing evil but who's glorified by defeating evil, by saving us from evil.
The Calvinist god is glorified by evil, but the God of the Bible is glorified in spite of evil. The Calvinist god wants people in hell, but the God of the Bible wants to save people from hell. The Calvinist god causes sin, but the God of the Bible died to save people from sin. The Calvinist god is glorified when people do evil and reject him, but the God of the Bible is glorified when people do good and accept Him. The Calvinist god loves only himself and "the elect" whom he caused to love him, but the God of the Bible loves all people and offers eternal life to all people, but He lets us choose to love Him back or not.
Can you see the difference? It's a very big difference.
[And on a different note, how can Calvi-god - who hates his enemies, the non-elect - tell us to love our enemies and pray for them (Matt. 5:44)? And if he predestined wicked people to commit the sins they do and go to hell, why would Jesus pray for them (Luke 23:34)? Wouldn't that be praying against His own predestined plans and Will, against what He caused for His glory (if Calvinism were true)? And 1 Cor. 13:6 says that love does not rejoice in evil, yet Calvi-god rejoices in causing people to sin and reject him because it brings him glory. Wouldn't this then mean that Calvi-god is not love, which would mean that he's not the God of the Bible because the God of the Bible is love (1 John 4:16)? And if Calvi-god rejoices in evil and if he only loves the elect, shouldn't Calvinists do so too, especially since Eph. 5:1 and 1 John 2:6 tell us to imitate God, to walk as Jesus did? Why would Calvi-god tell us to not gloat when our enemies fall and to not rejoice when they stumble (Prov. 24:17) if he himself predestined/causes them to fall and stumble for his glory? Shouldn't Calvinists rejoice in whatever he causes for his glory? Just some things to think about, showing how contradictory and nonsensical the Calvinist god is.]
Calvinists think it's humble to believe that God preplans and causes all evil, sin, and unbelief for His glory, that He would damn people to eternal hell for His glory.
But I think it's much more humbling to believe that even though we are tiny, fallen, broken creatures who could never do enough for Him in return - and even though many people will reject Him and all that He offers, all that He did for us - God still loves us and wants a relationship with all of us. And He wanted it badly enough to come down to our dirty sinful world, wearing a fragile fleshy body, in order to die on the cross in our place. Mocked, spit at, whipped, rejected. In order to pay the penalty we owe. Because He knows we can never pay it ourselves. To offer us all forgiveness, salvation, eternal life. Because He wants us in heaven with Him. Because He loves us. Just because He does.
A God who loves us that much and who asks us to love Him back - who offers us everything for nothing - is a God I want to love, worship, serve, obey, glorify.
Whereas Calvi-god just makes me want to throw up.
Wrapping it up, coming to the end now:
The Bible can be read and understood by all. It's quite clear and consistent in its teachings. It makes sense.
But Calvinists have turned the Bible, the Gospel, into something only for Calvinists, as if it's a code - full of secret definitions, hidden messages, and double meanings - that only Calvinists can know and understand.
But Calvinists have turned the Bible, the Gospel, into something only for Calvinists, as if it's a code - full of secret definitions, hidden messages, and double meanings - that only Calvinists can know and understand.
But Calvinists don't "know the code." They made up the code and then reinterpreted the Bible to fit. They started with their own presuppositions and then built their theology around it, reinterpreting verses/words to fit and explaining away/twisting the multitudes of verses that contradict Calvinism.
And they precondition us to interpret verses in a Calvinist way by first telling us "what the Bible teaches" and how to understand it (their interpretation of it), and then they lead us to the (out-of-context) verses that "prove" it, helping us "discover" Calvinism in the Bible.
They tell us that predestination is in the Bible, then they tell us how to define it, then they lead us to Romans 8 and Ephesians 1 and they point out the words "predestined" and "chosen" (which we've already been preconditioned to interpret Calvinisticly), and then they say "See! Told ya so. I was right." And we fall for it because we didn't research for ourselves to see what was predestined, who was chosen, and what they were chosen for, etc. In fact, we don't even think we need to research it because the Calvinist already told us what it all means.
We're suckered into it because we want to be humble and to honor God. We're suckered into it because we're trusting, thinking that they've reached a higher level of theological insight/knowledge than us and so they must know what they're talking about. We're suckered into it because we don't do our own research, but instead we let someone else tell us what to think.
But their theological view falls apart when the Bible is read in context, when words are interpreted correctly, and when you keep in mind the whole of Scripture and God's revealed character throughout.
In the end, Calvinism creates many more questions (unanswerable questions) than it answers, and it creates tons of illogical contradictions about Scripture and God's character. (Why do you think it takes them hundreds of pages to explain the Calvinist gospel, when the book of John did it in a few verses?)
In the end, Calvinism creates many more questions (unanswerable questions) than it answers, and it creates tons of illogical contradictions about Scripture and God's character. (Why do you think it takes them hundreds of pages to explain the Calvinist gospel, when the book of John did it in a few verses?)
This is why they have to always come back to "You don't have to understand it. You just have to accept it because it's what the Bible says."
Umm ... No, it's not!
Calvinism is dangerous because it's a lie, because it twists God and His Word totally out of shape until it presents a whole different God, a whole different gospel.
It destroys the Gospel, God's character, God's Truth, Jesus's sacrifice, people's faith, people's relationship with God and trust of God, etc. It withholds salvation from a great multitude of people, saying that Jesus never even died for them and that there's nothing they can do about it. It says that God is glorified for causing sin and causing people to go to hell, when actually Jesus died to save us from sin and hell. It uses God's Word against Him. It uses the Gospel to destroy the Gospel. It uses humility to manipulate Christians. It causes us to question what God says in His Word. (After all, if God told Adam and Eve that He didn't want them to eat the forbidden fruit but then He caused them to eat the fruit because it was His "secret Will" that they sinned, then how can we ever trust what God commands us to do? When His real Will might actually be the opposite of what He commands?)
If all this doesn't make you deep-down-in-your-soul angry, if you don't see how Calvinism twists Scripture and damages God's character and truth, then you either don't really understand Calvinism or you don't really understand the Bible.
I'm sorry, but there's no polite way to say it.
And how could we ever trust a God like that!?!
But here's the good news: You don't have to. Because Calvinism's god is not the God of the Bible. Calvinism is not the Gospel.
Calvinism is a house of cards built on a foundation of Jell-O. And if you take out one card, the whole thing falls apart. If you disprove their idea of "total inability" or "sovereignty" or "predestination" or "dead," etc., then the whole thing unravels. Because each point hinges on all the others. They're all built on top of each other.
[However, as I pointed out earlier, all of Calvinism's ideas and points interlock so tightly that it appears to be a very strong house - solid, well-put-together, consistent - which makes it appear to be truth. And this is how they get you, because it looks so solid. From the outside.
But this is why you must go deep inside the house and closely question/examine every "card" they use: every point they make, every term they use, every illustration they use, every question they ask you, every verse they refer to, etc. Only then, as you begin to pull on the cards, will you be able to see how illogical, self-contradictory, and contrary to Scripture it really is. (This is why they have to resort to manipulation and shaming - to prevent you from pulling on the cards. Because when you do, it all falls apart.)]
So go ahead and pull on a few cards.
Ask a Calvinist a few more questions about their contradictions and the things that don't make sense.
Ask them to explain their answers more - because the more they answer, the more they trap themselves and contradict what they first said, what they wanted you to think they were saying.
Read the verses they use in context, in the whole paragraph (preferably the KJV, but for sure not the ESV), using commonsense and looking at the plain, clear teaching of it in order to see what it's really saying (and look up words in the concordance too, to see the original meaning of it).
[Calvinist preachers say "The Bible teaches such-and-such Calvinist concept." But you need to look at what the Bible actually says. I believe Calvinist preachers deliberately use the word "teach" because they know the Bible doesn't outright say their Calvinist ideas. But if Calvinists piece together enough half-verses taken out of context and redefine words and break things into "two different types of ..." and add double layers, then they can make it appear to "teach" what they think it does, in contradiction to what the Bible plainly says. Don't let them convince you of their ideas of what the Bible teaches, but instead look at what it actually says.]
Dig a little deeper and see what happens. See if their answers get more logical, or more convoluted. See if their theology sounds more biblical, or less biblical. See if they give you solid answers that make sense, or if they have to resort to deflection, distraction, shaming, and manipulation. See if God's character gets better looking, or worse looking. See if He becomes more trustworthy, or less trustworthy. See if the house of cards stays stable, or if it starts to crumble. (Want to see a master of manipulation and deflection? See "MacArthur's Manipulations.")
Don't just accept Calvinism because it appears so solid or because all their points interconnect tightly. Pull on a few cards and see what happens. Examine the worms! (And if you need to, see "Healing your soul from Calvinism's damage".)
So now, given all that we've looked at here, can you really say that this issue "doesn't matter"? Do you really think that Calvinism and the Bible are teaching the same thing?
If they aren't, then which one's wrong? Which one's right? Which one will you believe and defend?
Phew, you made it to the end! I'm proud of you, that's quite an accomplishment. Now stand up, walk around a bit, and let the blood flow back into your legs. And go get yourself a piece of cheesecake or chocolate pie or whatever you like; you deserve it.
And now for more of reading pleasure, here are the links in this post:
And here's a post about us leaving our Calvinist church
"12 Tips on how to think critically about Calvinism."
"Calvinist Tactics Exposed" from Beyond the Fundamentals
"Calvinist Tactics Exposed" from Beyond the Fundamentals
"Connecting With God For A Breakthrough" (Tony Evans)
Listen to this clip of Calvinist James White defending his belief that child-rape is caused by God
In this link, the writer tells us that a Calvinist pastor usually avoids messages about how God loves you and Jesus died for you.
