Do Calvinists Really Believe God Causes Sin? Let Them Speak For Themselves!
"You don't understand Calvinism" is the rebuttal we hear from Calvinists when we say that their theology makes God the cause of evil (and that He punishes us for doing the evil He caused us to do).
I think there are a few possibilities for why this is so:
1. Those Calvinists don't really understand their own theology because they haven't bothered to carry out their views to their logical conclusions. (Which I think is most Calvinists. I think most Calvinists think Calvinism is simply believing in God's sovereignty. And they want to honor God, to humble themselves before Him, to acknowledge His sovereignty over all. They are trying to do the right thing. But they don't realize that Calvinism's view of sovereignty is a twisted, wicked version of it, very contrary to the Bible's presentation of God's sovereignty. And if they bothered to really think about what their version of "sovereignty" does to God's character and the Gospel's Truth and Jesus's sacrifice, they wouldn't be Calvinists anymore.)
2. Or they are deliberately ignorant of the conclusions of their beliefs. They realize where their beliefs lead but choose to gloss over it instead, to cover up all contradictions and terrible, illogical conclusions with "Who are we to question Him? He is God and we are not. He is the Potter and we are the clay. We don't have to understand it; we just have to accept it." (When a theology turns God into an illogical, unjust, contradictory "Monster god," as Calvinism does, then you'd BETTER question it! You'd better take as much time as needed to figure out if your theology fits the Gospel ... or to figure out if you're simply trying to force the Gospel to fit your theology.)
3. Or they are dogmatic, educated Calvinists who are being deliberately deceptive about their view of God as the cause of evil, because they know it goes against God's Word and character. But since they choose to cling to their view that "sovereignty means that God has to be the CAUSE of ALL THINGS," they have to then find ways to blame man, instead of God, for sin and evil because they know it's wrong to accuse God of sin and evil, even though their theology demands accusing God of sin and evil. And this leads to major contradictions. (Instead of just rethinking their view of "sovereignty" to make it fit with the Bible and God's character, they alter the Bible and God's character to fit their erroneous views.)
[To get around the whole "God causes sin" thing, Calvinism came up with the idea of "ultimate cause" and "secondary cause" (they go by other names, too). God is the "ultimate cause" of everything that happens, meaning that He predetermined everything that happens and ultimately brings it all about through secondary causes, such as bringing about sin through man's wicked desires and actions. But then they say that because man wants to sin, he chooses to sin, and therefore he is accountable for his sin, even though God is the "ultimate cause" - the planner and orchestrator - of that sin.
It's like saying that God planned for a murder to happen, and so He caused a person to desire to kill, and then that person "chose" to kill. And since that person wanted and "chose" to kill, they are responsible for the murder, not God. Even though God caused the man to desire to kill.
Do you see how twisted and deceptive this is!?!
Listen closely to what I'm about to tell you, because this is the hidden belief (one of the hidden beliefs) behind all the times Calvinists deceptively say "Of course man has free-will" and "Of course we get to make choices, and so we can be held accountable for our choices":
Ultimately, what they believe is that God alone has determined - from the beginning of time - whom He will give the repentant "saved" nature to (given only to the "elect," those He's predestined for heaven) and whom He will leave as an unrepentant "unsaved" sinner. And if God has chosen to leave you as an unrepentant sinner (based only on His "sovereign" decision, through no fault or decision of your own), you have been left as a depraved sinner who can do no good and who will only always want to sin. Therefore, when you sin, it's because you "chose" to sin ... because you "wanted" to sin ... because you could only desire to sin and choose to sin, according to the unrepentant nature God predetermined you would have.
And they say this can be called "freely making choices you can be held accountable for." That you are the cause of your sin, not God.
What the ...!?!
Basically, God gave you the nature you have, which determined the desires you would have, which led to the actions you would do. You "freely" make the choices that go with the nature God predetermined you would have. You "choose" to do the things God preplanned you would do (and you can't do anything but that). But because you "wanted" to do those things, according to the desires that come with the nature God gave you, you are the cause of your sin, not God. And so you can "justly" be held accountable for it.
This is what is behind all their contradictory "God is totally in control, but we really do make choices" nonsense! Behind their "God causes all things but isn't the cause of sin" hogwash!
Does this sound like free-will to you!?! That you are ultimately the cause of your sins!?! That if God predetermined you'd be an unrepentant sinner, you had any ability to not sin!?!
And this is how they hide their view that "God causes sin." In layers and layers of reeking garbage!
It's frickin' nonsense! A desperate attempt to absolve God of responsibility for evil when their theology essentially and necessarily makes God the cause of all evil!
Do not buy into this garbage! Do not listen to it! If you do - if you entertain this nonsense, trying to make Calvinism fit with the Bible - then you are allowing yourself to be led astray into a wicked theology! What you should do instead is find out how the Bible presents God's sovereignty and how He interacts with man and what He expects from us. Do not start with Calvinism and then try to make the Bible fit. Start with the Bible, and you'll see how wrong - wickedly wrong - Calvinism is!]
So ... just to show you that we who disagree with Calvinism aren't misunderstanding it, here are some links to show you what John Calvin and famous Calvinists say about God and evil, in their own words.
I ask you, where is there room for any misunderstanding here?
I understand Calvinism (as much as any insane, rambling, contradictory, nonsensical garbage can be understood)!
What I don't understand is how they can't understand what Calvinism does to God's character and the Gospel's Truth and Jesus's sacrifice! How they can keep clinging to such destructive, hopeless nonsense in the face of so much Scripture that contradicts it!
(Take special notice of how much of their theology is built on their own presumptions of cause and effect, on their own ideas of how God has to be in order to be the kind of "sovereign" God they think He is. And FYI, just because I link to some Arminian sites doesn't mean I'm Arminian. I am not. I have never studied it to know what they believe. It's just that they have a lot of good information against Calvinism.)
"Calvinist Quotes on God Determining All Evil"
Calvinism and Arminianism: Myths and Realities
Calvinism: The "Gumby" Theology
In Calvinism, God is the problem of evil
RC Sproul and the "Demons of Fatalism"
The Insanity of Calvinism, John Piper
A series on Calvinism:
A Critique of John Piper's Theodicy: Purposing Evil for the Purpose of God? Part 1
A Critique of John Piper's Theodicy: Is God Morally Color-Blind? Part 2
A good answer from "the other side" about how evil happens but God is not responsible for it, and so we can still trust Him:
Lee Strobel: Why Does God Allow Tragedy and Suffering
How about one about the ironic-ness of Calvinists disapproving of the evil that happens if God Himself is causing all evil for His glory, as Calvinism claims: "Should Christians express indignation about God's plans?" Honestly ... should we be trying to stop sin if God Himself has preplanned and caused that sin for His glory!?! (I just found this post from the same site: "You don't understand Calvinism!" Worth reading!)
And for a deeper look into Calvinism:
Calvinism False Doctrines
Calvinism's Proof Texts Examined
The Calvinist T.U.L.I.P Refuted by Scripture
I think there are a few possibilities for why this is so:
1. Those Calvinists don't really understand their own theology because they haven't bothered to carry out their views to their logical conclusions. (Which I think is most Calvinists. I think most Calvinists think Calvinism is simply believing in God's sovereignty. And they want to honor God, to humble themselves before Him, to acknowledge His sovereignty over all. They are trying to do the right thing. But they don't realize that Calvinism's view of sovereignty is a twisted, wicked version of it, very contrary to the Bible's presentation of God's sovereignty. And if they bothered to really think about what their version of "sovereignty" does to God's character and the Gospel's Truth and Jesus's sacrifice, they wouldn't be Calvinists anymore.)
2. Or they are deliberately ignorant of the conclusions of their beliefs. They realize where their beliefs lead but choose to gloss over it instead, to cover up all contradictions and terrible, illogical conclusions with "Who are we to question Him? He is God and we are not. He is the Potter and we are the clay. We don't have to understand it; we just have to accept it." (When a theology turns God into an illogical, unjust, contradictory "Monster god," as Calvinism does, then you'd BETTER question it! You'd better take as much time as needed to figure out if your theology fits the Gospel ... or to figure out if you're simply trying to force the Gospel to fit your theology.)
3. Or they are dogmatic, educated Calvinists who are being deliberately deceptive about their view of God as the cause of evil, because they know it goes against God's Word and character. But since they choose to cling to their view that "sovereignty means that God has to be the CAUSE of ALL THINGS," they have to then find ways to blame man, instead of God, for sin and evil because they know it's wrong to accuse God of sin and evil, even though their theology demands accusing God of sin and evil. And this leads to major contradictions. (Instead of just rethinking their view of "sovereignty" to make it fit with the Bible and God's character, they alter the Bible and God's character to fit their erroneous views.)
[To get around the whole "God causes sin" thing, Calvinism came up with the idea of "ultimate cause" and "secondary cause" (they go by other names, too). God is the "ultimate cause" of everything that happens, meaning that He predetermined everything that happens and ultimately brings it all about through secondary causes, such as bringing about sin through man's wicked desires and actions. But then they say that because man wants to sin, he chooses to sin, and therefore he is accountable for his sin, even though God is the "ultimate cause" - the planner and orchestrator - of that sin.
It's like saying that God planned for a murder to happen, and so He caused a person to desire to kill, and then that person "chose" to kill. And since that person wanted and "chose" to kill, they are responsible for the murder, not God. Even though God caused the man to desire to kill.
Do you see how twisted and deceptive this is!?!
Listen closely to what I'm about to tell you, because this is the hidden belief (one of the hidden beliefs) behind all the times Calvinists deceptively say "Of course man has free-will" and "Of course we get to make choices, and so we can be held accountable for our choices":
Ultimately, what they believe is that God alone has determined - from the beginning of time - whom He will give the repentant "saved" nature to (given only to the "elect," those He's predestined for heaven) and whom He will leave as an unrepentant "unsaved" sinner. And if God has chosen to leave you as an unrepentant sinner (based only on His "sovereign" decision, through no fault or decision of your own), you have been left as a depraved sinner who can do no good and who will only always want to sin. Therefore, when you sin, it's because you "chose" to sin ... because you "wanted" to sin ... because you could only desire to sin and choose to sin, according to the unrepentant nature God predetermined you would have.
And they say this can be called "freely making choices you can be held accountable for." That you are the cause of your sin, not God.
What the ...!?!
Basically, God gave you the nature you have, which determined the desires you would have, which led to the actions you would do. You "freely" make the choices that go with the nature God predetermined you would have. You "choose" to do the things God preplanned you would do (and you can't do anything but that). But because you "wanted" to do those things, according to the desires that come with the nature God gave you, you are the cause of your sin, not God. And so you can "justly" be held accountable for it.
This is what is behind all their contradictory "God is totally in control, but we really do make choices" nonsense! Behind their "God causes all things but isn't the cause of sin" hogwash!
Does this sound like free-will to you!?! That you are ultimately the cause of your sins!?! That if God predetermined you'd be an unrepentant sinner, you had any ability to not sin!?!
And this is how they hide their view that "God causes sin." In layers and layers of reeking garbage!
It's frickin' nonsense! A desperate attempt to absolve God of responsibility for evil when their theology essentially and necessarily makes God the cause of all evil!
Do not buy into this garbage! Do not listen to it! If you do - if you entertain this nonsense, trying to make Calvinism fit with the Bible - then you are allowing yourself to be led astray into a wicked theology! What you should do instead is find out how the Bible presents God's sovereignty and how He interacts with man and what He expects from us. Do not start with Calvinism and then try to make the Bible fit. Start with the Bible, and you'll see how wrong - wickedly wrong - Calvinism is!]
So ... just to show you that we who disagree with Calvinism aren't misunderstanding it, here are some links to show you what John Calvin and famous Calvinists say about God and evil, in their own words.
I ask you, where is there room for any misunderstanding here?
I understand Calvinism (as much as any insane, rambling, contradictory, nonsensical garbage can be understood)!
What I don't understand is how they can't understand what Calvinism does to God's character and the Gospel's Truth and Jesus's sacrifice! How they can keep clinging to such destructive, hopeless nonsense in the face of so much Scripture that contradicts it!
(Take special notice of how much of their theology is built on their own presumptions of cause and effect, on their own ideas of how God has to be in order to be the kind of "sovereign" God they think He is. And FYI, just because I link to some Arminian sites doesn't mean I'm Arminian. I am not. I have never studied it to know what they believe. It's just that they have a lot of good information against Calvinism.)
"Calvinist Quotes on God Determining All Evil"
Calvinism and Arminianism: Myths and Realities
Calvinism: The "Gumby" Theology
In Calvinism, God is the problem of evil
RC Sproul and the "Demons of Fatalism"
The Insanity of Calvinism, John Piper
Listen to this clip where Calvinist James White defends child rape, saying that it only has purpose if we believe God causes it.
Read Piper's quotes here:
Nonsense and contradictions about God's "sovereignty": "In the Words of John Calvin" (This is from an online "book" I haven't yet read, which starts with the forward: "Is God the Author of Sin?")
Pure nonsense from a Calvinist site trying to mesh free-will with God's absolute control over everything: Calvinism denies free-will and makes God responsible for evil [If that link doesn't work, try this one. Notice the blazingly-clear contradictory nonsense in the first couple lines of his answer. (Paraphrased) "We have freedom to choose what we want ... but unbelievers are so corrupt that they will never want to choose God. Unbelievers are not free." So they aren't free, but they're still free to make choices!?! If you aren't free then how can you have "freedom to choose"? There is that "you can only make the decisions that go with the nature God gave you" answer that I talked about earlier. Why aren't Calvinists embarrassed by their insane theological views and their pathetic, illogical, irrational defenses of their views!?!]A series on Calvinism:
A Critique of John Piper's Theodicy: Purposing Evil for the Purpose of God? Part 1
A Critique of John Piper's Theodicy: Is God Morally Color-Blind? Part 2
A Critique of John Piper's Theodicy: Are We God's Evil Contract Assassins? Part 3
A Critique of John Piper's Theodicy: Calvinism's Cognitive Dissonance. Part 4
A Critique of John Piper's Theodicy: Calvinism's Cognitive Dissonance. Part 4
A good answer from "the other side" about how evil happens but God is not responsible for it, and so we can still trust Him:
Lee Strobel: Why Does God Allow Tragedy and Suffering
How about one about the ironic-ness of Calvinists disapproving of the evil that happens if God Himself is causing all evil for His glory, as Calvinism claims: "Should Christians express indignation about God's plans?" Honestly ... should we be trying to stop sin if God Himself has preplanned and caused that sin for His glory!?! (I just found this post from the same site: "You don't understand Calvinism!" Worth reading!)
And for a deeper look into Calvinism:
Calvinism False Doctrines
Calvinism's Proof Texts Examined
The Calvinist T.U.L.I.P Refuted by Scripture
Some posts on Calvinism from the blog Redeeming God (I haven't read all their posts, so be discerning for yourselves):
Words of Calvinism and the Word of God
Do humans have a free-will? Calvinism says "no"
Words of Calvinism and the Word of God
Do humans have a free-will? Calvinism says "no"
Okay, let's end this serious post on a lighter note. For a giggle: Jokes about Calvinism...
And I think this is awesome: Hitler and Calvinism. Pretty much sums up my view on it!
Also worth watching:
A look at Calvin and today's Calvinists: What would they have done if they'd been there? from Discerning the World. Interesting! Very interesting! Watch it. It makes me sick to my stomach.
And I think this is awesome: Hitler and Calvinism. Pretty much sums up my view on it!
Also worth watching:
A look at Calvin and today's Calvinists: What would they have done if they'd been there? from Discerning the World. Interesting! Very interesting! Watch it. It makes me sick to my stomach.
