Exposing Calvinism: "Anyone" Can Believe and Be Saved

To show you how Calvinists really don't mean "anyone" when they say "anyone can be saved" (how they don't mean "all people" when they say "God loves all people and Jesus died for all people"), here are some more comments from the Soteriology 101 post "Frustrated by the state of the world?" (I made minor corrections for clarity and added a bunch of notes in response to what the Calvinists say): 

My comment, in reply to something Roland (Calvinist) said:

Roland, would you mind explaining how your comment “I agree that anyone can believe in Jesus” fits with your comment “unless God gives [you] a new heart, you will not seek God” ... and with your denial of the idea that since God calls everyone to believe, it means we must all be able to believe ... and with your agreement with Rhutchin (Calvinist) that “Certainly, God has determined who will be saved and who will not…”?

How can you say “anyone can believe” and yet hold those other beliefs?  (This isn’t rhetorical.  I’m asking seriously.)  If the non-elect are never given a new heart (by God) then how can they believe in Jesus?  Do you define “anyone” as all people, elect and non-elect, or as “only the elect”?  If it’s “all people,” then how can you, as a Calvinist, say that the non-elect can believe in Jesus, when they will not be given a new heart or the faith to believe?  But if it’s “only the elect,” then how can you say “anyone”?

Also, I said that Calvinists twist God's justice when they say "God created most people to be sinners so that He could show off His justice by punishing them in hell for sinning."  (In Romans 3:25-26, God says He shows His justice by sending Jesus to the cross to pay for sin.  Not by predestining people to hell.)

And you replied: “I’ve never heard a Calvinist say God shows off.  That’s a very irreverent manner to speak about God.”

I agree with you about it being irreverent.  Maybe you should tell that to my Calvinist pastor’s adult Calvinist son who wrote a post about how – after two weeks of contemplating why God would predestine people to hell – he came to the conclusion that God predestined people to be unrepentant sinners because He wanted to have sinners to punish so that He could show off His justice so that He could get glory for it and worship Himself for being so just.

Further down in the string of comments, Rhutchin (Calvinist) says this (replying to comments made by Fromoverhere, non-Calvinist):

Fromoverhere (FOH) writes, “The problem is that a Calvinist CANNOT preach to a random crowd, 'Christ died for you!'  They should say 'Christ may have died for you!' but….nah…never heard one do that.”

Calvinists can say that God loves both Jews and gentiles, black and white, rich and poor, etc.  [My note:  See?  They don't mean "all people" but just "all kinds of people".]  Christ paid the penalty for sin.  For anyone to tell any individual that Christ died for him would be a lie if God has no intent to save that person.  God already knows who will be saved and who will not and knew this before He created the world.  As Jesus said, “All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.”  

[My note: Why would a Calvinist think it's wrong to "lie" to people by telling them that Jesus died for all men and wants all men to be saved when, apparently, Calvi-god doesn't mind lying to people about it?  "And he died for all ..."(2 Cor. 5:15).  "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men."(Titus 2:11).  "This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of truth.  For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men..."(1 Timothy 2:3-5).  “Consequently, just as the result of one trespass [Adam’s sin] was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness [Jesus’ death] was justification that brings life for all men.”(Romans 5:18).   "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son ..."(John 3:16).  "He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."(2 Peter 3:9b).  "… but now [God] commands all people everywhere to repent.”(Acts 17:30).  Of course, this would be assuming that Calvi-god is the God who wrote the Bible.  But he is not!  Calvi-god is not the God of the Bible.  And the God of the Bible is not lying when He says that Jesus died for all and that He wants all men to be saved!]

Then FOH says, “Calvinism's Limited Atonement clearly states that man is NOT refusing God’s offer… cuz God is not even offering.”

Total Depravity says that anyone without faith refuses God’s command to repent and believe the gospel.  Limited atonement says that God has no intent to save all people.  [My note: And that's in direct contradiction to the verses listed above, particularly 1 Timothy 2:3-5 and 2 Peter 3:9.  And also remember that, in Calvinism, it's God's fault if someone has no faith, because He wouldn't give it to them.]

Then FOH says, “So you have to reinterpret all those Bible verses that state that people are 'refusing Him.'  Ha!  No one is refusing an offer they never received!”

No reinterpretation necessary.  Just accept the Calvinist distinction – People without faith always refuse the gospel; people with faith always accept the gospel.  [My note: He means that if God doesn't give you faith then you will reject the gospel and that if God gives you faith then you will accept it - not that everyone has the chance/ability to have faith or that we have anything to do with whether or not we have faith.]  Of course, FOH has already rejected that distinction [my note: because it's unbiblical!].  

[My note: In Calvinism, faith comes before hearing and responding to the gospel.  Calvi-god gives the elect faith first, so that they can respond to the gospel and believe in Jesus.  Does that sound biblical to you?  That people have faith (are reborn, saved) before responding to the gospel, before believing in Jesus?  What a satanically brilliant way to make the gospel and belief in Jesus inconsequential, superfluous!  It makes the gospel and belief in Jesus secondary, virtually unrelated to whether or not you have faith and are reborn/saved.

And I agree with FOH.  The non-elect are not really refusing God's offer of salvation or the command to repent because they never really were offered the chance to do these things.  Am I really offering a prisoner freedom if I stand 50 feet away from their locked cell and tell them that if they just reach out and grab the key I am holding then they can be free?  But that's not all: I also tied them up so that they can't reach out and I gave them a magic potion that makes them want to stay in jail so that it's impossible for them to even want to be free, to want to grab the key.  Is this a real offer?  

No!  Of course not!  But this is Calvinism.  And this is what Calvi-god does.  He calls all people to repent and believe ("offering" salvation to "all" people), but he makes it impossible for most to do so because he predestined them to hell and causes them to have no faith, to want to stay unsaved.  And yet Calvinists call this a "real offer."  They are so hardened in their Calvinism that they accept nonsense as truth.  (And then when you confront them on their nonsense and contradictions, they say something like "You can't use human logic to understand Scripture.  Who are you to question God anyway?  Humble Christians don't question God!"  Satanically brilliant!)]

Brdmod (non-Calvinist) replies to Rhutchin:

Rhutchin says "Calvinists can say that God loves both Jews and gentiles, black and white, rich and poor, etc."

Yes – but they can’t say what KIND of love Calvin’s god has for them.  He might have a KIND of love that creates/designs them specifically for eternal torment in a lake of fire – for his good pleasure.  That is the KIND of love he has for the MANY of the human race.  He has a different KIND of love for a FEW.

Rhutchin replies to Brdmod:

However, the love God has for the individual is a different love for those to whom He extends mercy than for those to whom He extends justice.  At least, the one who received justice would argue that it was a different love from his perspective.

[My note: Brdmod was pointing out the Calvinist idea of "God's two loves," which Rhutchin confirms.  To make the Calvinist idea of predestination (that God predestines people to hell) fit with the Bible's teaching that God loves all people, they simply break God's love up into two different types of love.  Calvi-god loves the elect with a "save their soul" kind of love, but he loves the non-elect with a "gives them food and sunshine while they are alive on earth (before sending them to hell for all of eternity for being the unbelievers he predestined/caused them to be - their idea of "justice")" kind of love.  Voila!  Now they can "honestly" say, "Of course we believe that God loves all people!"  Once again, satanically brilliant!  Calvinism is full to the brim with this kind of garbage!  (Oh, and to further hide the fact that Calvi-god predestines people to hell, they will say "He doesn't predestine people to hell.  He just picks who goes to heaven, but He simply 'passes over' the rest, allowing them to go to hell, where all depraved sinners go by default."  As if predestining who goes to heaven is not also predestining who goes to hell.  More deceptive garbage!)] 

Rhutchin comments on my reply to Roland:

Heather asks, “Roland, would you mind explaining how your comment 'I agree that anyone can believe in Jesus' fits with your comment 'unless God gives [you] a new heart, you will not seek God.'”

I think Roland means, that he agrees that anyone can believe in Jesus provided that they hear the gospel and receive faith through that hearing.  If a person never hears about Jesus, he cannot believe in Jesus.  [My note: So the Calvinist is admitting here that "anyone" doesn't really mean "anyone."  It only means "the elect."  Read: "Anyone can believe in Jesus ... as long as God first gives them the faith to believe."  These are the word-games Calvinists play.  And notice that here he says the gospel leads to receiving faith (the elect "receive" the faith Calvi-god instills in them), whereas earlier he said that having faith (given to you from Calvi-god) leads to believing the gospel: "people with faith always accept the gospel."  More of Calvinism's deceptive, contradictory nonsense and hogwash!  Can you see why we anti-Calvinists say that debating a Calvinist is like wrestling a greased pig?]

Then Heather says, “… and your denial of 'since God calls everyone to believe, then we must all be able to believe' and your agreement with Rhutchin that 'Certainly, God has determined who will be saved and who will not…'? ”

God commands everyone to repent and believe the gospel.  [My note: And yet Calvi-god predestined/causes most to be unbelievers.]  There is then a general call made through the preacher to everyone physically hearing the gospel preached.  However, as the preacher only plants and waters, whatever increase is attained is because God imparts faith to some but not to others, so that God determines who will be saved and who will not.  [My note: Just like Calvinism's "two loves," they also have "two calls."  Calvi-god gives a "general call" for salvation to all people, which the non-elect are predestined/forced to reject, but he gives a special "irresistible call" to the elect that they are predestined/forced to accept when he gives them the faith to believe.  And so - voila! - now the Calvinist can "honestly" say "Of course we believe God calls all people to be saved!"  That's right, you know what I'm gonna say: Satanically brilliant!]  

Then Heather says, “Also, I said that Calvinism twists God's justice when they say 'God created most people to be sinners so that He could show off His justice by punishing them in hell for sinning.'”

As God withholds faith from all people at birth and the only way to receive faith is by hearing the gospel, then God created all people to be sinners.  Of course, no sinner is able to enter heaven so no injustice is done to anyone denied entrance into heaven, and the punishment is just.

[My note: Rhutchin is being deceptive here.  In Calvinism, it's not "hearing the gospel" that leads a person to faith; it's that Calvi-god gives them faith first so that they can "hear" the gospel.  

Actually, I've questioned him about this before, and he clarifies that faith comes before and after hearing the gospel, that God gives the elect faith first so that they can hear, understand, and respond to the gospel, and then the gospel leads them to have faith in Jesus.  Calvinists are experts at having two unresolvable, contradictory ideas at once, without being bothered by it at all (having been brainwashed to not question these kinds of things but to simply slap on a pat, rote, Calvinist "answer").  And this is why debates with them are fruitless and frustrating, because they can switch to one idea or the other in a heartbeat, without letting you know it and without even informing you that they have multiple, contradictory ideas (and because they have a merry-go-round of Bible verses that they whip out and apply to any question you have, without actually resolving the holes, illogical nonsense, or contradictions in their theology ... and round and round and round we go...).  

In Calvinism, the gospel doesn't lead anyone to faith, but faith (given to them first, by God) leads the elect to believe the gospel.  As he has said before in another comment: "In Calvinism, the gospel is how God draws his elect out of the world."  NOT how sinners become saved.  The gospel, in Calvinism, is only for the elect.  The elect believe the gospel because they are already saved/born again/given faith.  However, in the Bible, the gospel is meant to lead sinners to faith, to believe in Jesus, to salvation: "But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (John 20:31).  Calvinism brilliantly uses the same concepts as the Bible but it subtly reverses them, making it a completely different message.  (Such as by changing the biblical idea of "When you believe, you get the Holy Spirit" to the Calvinist idea of "When you get the Holy Spirit, you believe."  Can you see how different those sentences are?  Same words but in reverse ... completely different meanings!)

And Calvinists call it "justice" when Calvi-god refuses to give the non-elect faith to believe so that they end up in hell like he predestined.  Because ... as they always point out ... "No one deserves to be saved anyway.  We all deserve hell.  So it's not wrong for God to save/regenerate some people while letting everyone else stay the hell-bound sinners they want to be and giving them the punishment their sins and unbelief deserve."  (Yet they hide the fact that Calvi-god caused the non-elect to "want" to be sinners and to sin/reject him in the first place.  And if he caused it, then how is that "justice" and "deserved punishment"?)

Calvinists do not think it is wrong or unjust for God to create most people to be hell-bound sinners, to never give them a chance to repent or believe or be saved, to predestine/cause them to sin and to reject Him, and then to punish them for it.  As if they had a choice when they really didn't.  Calvinists have become so hardened in their false, demonic theology that they think this is okay, that God is really like this, that it's justice (and when you question them on it, they say things like "God gets to decide what's justice and what's not, and even if we think it's unjust, it's justice in God's eyes") and they praise Him for it, for creating most people so that He can hate them and cause them to sin and send them to hell, for His pleasure and glory.  

It's sick!  

(And who does this really sound like to you?  That's right ... Satan!  Who else would erase the line between justice and injustice?  Who else would try to convince people that there is no discernible difference between good and evil, that evil can be good and that good can be evil?  That God causes evil because it glorifies Him?  Who else would try to attack God's character, His righteousness and holiness, like this?  I mean think about it.  Really.)]

Roland (Calvinist) replies to me:

Thanks for the reply Heather, and the question, I will do my best to answer as I struggle to communicate what I’m saying well.  If you have any questions about response and answer, please reply, I’ll do my best to answer, thanks.  [My note: To be fair, I think Roland is one of the more polite, respectful Calvinists who comment at Soteriology 101, in my experience.  I think he tries to be decent and mature in his responses.  And I respect him for that.  And so when I respond to Roland, I try to make sure to critique his Calvinist views ... not him personally.  I think that, for the most part, he tries to be thoughtful, careful, and respectful, but he doesn't get enough credit for it sometimes.  I understand you, Roland, and I appreciate it, even though I totally disagree with you.]

Heather asks: "Roland, would you mind explaining how your comment 'I agree that anyone can believe in Jesus' fits with your comment 'unless God gives [you] a new heart, you will not seek God' and your denial of 'since God calls everyone to believe, then we must all be able to believe' and your agreement with Rhutchin that 'Certainly, God has determined who will be saved and who will not…'?"

As far as "anyone" can believe, I believe it is the biblical teaching that anyone can believe.  There is not requirement for belief besides believing.  To many non-calvinists this sounds like a contradiction, a paradox, double mindedness, double speak, but to us as Calvinists we believe any can be believe.  However, I also said that unless God gives them a new heart, no one can seek God.  [My note: He's saying that anyone who believes - who is able to believe - can believe.  That's only the elect!  If you read between the lines of his comments overall, he is saying not that "anyone can believe" but that "God can make anyone believe."  Big difference!  In Calvinism, only the elect will get a new heart and faith from God, and so only the elect can believe.  Everyone else - the non-elect - are left as unregenerated, depraved, on-their-way-to-hell sinners, unable to believe.  In Calvinism, "anyone" is not really "anyone," but only those Calvi-god chooses.  I hope you can all see how tricky Calvinists are with their wording, their meanings of words.  Everything they say that sounds good and biblical is a cover for something else.  A theology this deceptive can only be demonic.]

Let me use an example from John 3, Jesus and Nicodemus.  In this conversation we learn some very important truths: God loves the world, Nicodemus is Jew, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born from above (born again), and much more.  So when I read these verses, I hear Jesus saying God’s love is to the whole world, beyond Israel and its border, he speaks to a Jew who would have obviously believed in God’s love for Israel, and it takes the work of the Holy Spirit to enter the kingdom of God.  We can discern from other Scriptures that the Holy Spirit is not given to everyone.  So without the Holy Spirit, no one can enter the kingdom of God.  As far as "anyone," I would further point to evidence as the classes of people who came to believe in Christ; slaves, Jews, Gentiles, woman, all types.  [My note: Once again, see?  "All kinds of people," not all individual people.]  So the kingdom of God is limited, but while anyone can believe [my note: as long as Calvi-god gives them the ability to believe], it is only for those who believe.  I hope that’s making sense.

Heather says: "How can you say 'anyone can believe' and yet hold those other beliefs?  (This isn’t rhetorical. I’m asking seriously.)"

I believe you are being sincere in your question.  I tried to explain above.  I would clarify by saying that all people can believe, and I don’t mean that there is an inherent capacity in our nature to believe.  I just mean it's open to all people.  But only some will believe.  [My note: So ... all people "can" believe, but not all people have the ability to believe!?!  Interesting.  Nonsensical.  Like something out of Alice in Wonderland.  You see what I mean?  Here he clarifies that "anyone can believe" does not mean that we all have the ability to believe, that we are all able to believe.  All it means is that anyone - and from any nationality - can believe IF Calvi-god wants them to and causes them to.  In Calvinism, salvation is "open" to all but only those who can believe (the elect) will believe, and the rest are predestined to reject it.  Not very "open," is it?  It's like opening up your front door to all people standing outside in the freezing cold and giving them an offer to come into your warm house, but then chaining up most people outside to a tree so that they can't walk through it ... and giving them a magic potion that makes them want to stay outside ... and gouging out their eyes so that they can't even see that the door is open to them.  The door is "open" to all, but only those who can walk through it (the ones you chose to make able to walk through it) will walk through it.  This is Calvinism.  And it's how Calvinists can still say the door is "open" to all people.  Sure, it's "open," but most people are - by Calvi-god's design - incapable of seeing it, wanting it, or walking through it.  So deceptive!]

Yes, the willingness to believe is only granted to the elect.  I know I used to believe it was contradictory and foolish [my note: because it is!], but I believe there is a biblical argument for the Calvinist position [my note: How tragic!].

Heather says: "I agree with you about it being irreverent.  Maybe you should tell that to my Calvinist pastor’s adult Calvinist son who wrote a post about how – after two weeks of contemplating why God would predestine people to hell – came to the conclusion that God predestined people to be unrepentant sinners because He wanted to have sinners to punish so that He could show off His justice so that He could get glory for it and worship Himself for being so just."

I don’t know all Calvinists so I know there are some extreme Calvinists out there.  I’ve met them, like one who told me that only Calvinists are the true Christians, all others are not real Christians.  I reject that on the basis that Calvinism is not the measure of being in Christ.  How a person comes to believe is not as important as believing and trusting in Christ.  [My note: So let me get this straight: It's not important whether it's that all people can believe, that Jesus died for all, that God loves all, that He means it when He says He wants all people to be saved and no one to perish ... or whether it's that Jesus only died for a few people but God predestined everyone else for hell, that He causes the non-elect to reject Him but then punishes them for it, that He wasn't really telling the truth when He said He wants all people to be saved and no one to go to hell!?!  That's not important!?!  This is something that only those who think they are one of "the elect" in Calvinism would say.  Read: "It's not important whether or not we all have the ability/opportunity to believe in Christ, but all that matters is that we - the elect - will believe in Christ."  If someone can't see the importance of this issue - what it means for us and for the gospel, and what it does to God's character and Jesus's sacrifice - then they are beyond hope.]

The Bible does speak of God being glorified in all things, or as Romans 11:36 says "For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever.  Amen."  So if glory is forever to Him of whom and through whom and to whom are all things, that is God, then is there ever time where glory is not to Him?  To me the answer is no.  God is always glorified at all times.  [My note: This is the Calvinist way of saying that predestining people to hell and causing evil and sin brings God glory.  But this verse isn't saying that God is glorified by all things, even sin and evil, but that glory is due God forever.  And how do we bring God glory?  By letting our light shine before others so that they may see our good works and give glory to God (Matthew 5:16).  (Any mention in there of sin and evil bringing God glory?  No?  I didn't think so.)  And just wondering: Why would we need to be instructed to glorify God in all we do (1 Cor. 10:31) if whatever we do, good or evil, brings Him glory?  Now, of course, God can take our sins and work them into His plans in a way that He brings something good out of it and gets glory from it in the end, but this does not mean He is glorified by sin and evil or by predestining/causing sin and evil.  Big difference!]

Yes, I believe God is always glorified.  His justice is displayed at all times but also His love, mercy, kindness, goodness, etc.  [My note: Fake "justice" for the non-elect, punishing them for what He caused them to do.  And love, mercy, etc. only for the elect (or a temporary, non-saving love for the non-elect while they are on earth, before He sends them to hell for all of eternity for what He made them do.)]

As a Calvinist, I do not contemplate God predestining people to hell.  [My note: And this is one of the problems with Calvinists, that they don't want to think about the unpleasant parts of Calvinism.  I guess it's best for them to just ignore all those people that Calvi-god predestined to hell and to focus on the fact that they are one of the lucky few who won the "salvation lottery" - randomly chosen to be loved and saved without any responsibility on their part.  Hooray for them!  (Too bad for everyone else, though.  But let's not think about that.)]

We don’t believe God worships himself.  I don’t agree with the Calvinist who said that.  I’ve never heard any pastors or teacher in my church say that.  [My note: Yeah, well, then did he hear the Calvinist who said that since God is love then it means everything God causes is from love, including cancer, wars, abuse, etc. (a Calvinist comment I once read)?  Did he hear the one who said that every event in your life was "ordained" by God for His glory, for your good, and to keep you humble, including if you were abused as a child (my Calvinist pastor, still makes me mad to think about it)?  Did he hear the one who said that if a child is raped then God caused it because if God didn't cause it then it would be a meaningless evil (James White)?  Did he hear the one who said that mentally-handicapped people who can't call on Jesus's name and babies who die before they repent are predestined for hell (read it here)?  Did he hear the one who proudly declared that he loves his unborn grandchild but that he knows God might not, that God might have destined the child to hell or even to be a murderer?  (How'd you like to be born into that family?  I might ban that grandpa from ever being alone with his grandchild.  Because who knows what else his Calvinist god could have "predestined"!?!)  I could go on, but you get the picture!  Calvinists think they are being super humble and God-honoring to accept that God is so "sovereign" that it's okay for Him to do this stuff.  It's sick and demonic.  And it's not the God of the Bible!]

But I’m not doubting what you said as Calvinists are not a monolithic group.  We have some crazies.  I’ve been called a crazy as well but not only for being a Calvinist.  Thanks for reading.

Anymore questions, please ask, I’ll try to respond with more clarity, I won’t take offense if you ask a rhetorical question, and I won’t be offended if you believe I’m wrong.

My reply to Roland:

Well, Roland, I do want to say thank you for taking the time to try to explain it to me.  But it doesn’t make it more clear to me.  In fact, yours and Rhutchin’s answers only make it worse, in my way of thinking.  It sounds to me like long, fancy, convoluted answers as a way of saying “Yes, anyone can believe … but, no, not anyone can believe.”

Clearly, you both mean that “anyone” equals “all types of people” … and not what commonsense would tell us that anyone means (“all individual people”).  Therefore, it makes it deceptive for Calvinists to say “anyone can believe,” knowing that most people would interpret “anyone” to mean “all individual people.”  

[Added note, not in my comment: It takes awhile to tease out what Calvinists really mean when they first say what they do.  They'll hide what the really mean as long as the can, unless they are pushed and pushed.  Just look at how long and convoluted the journey was from Roland's "I agree that anyone can believe in Jesus" to the truth that he really means that only the elect can believe, that God loves only the elect people of the world but not all individual people of the world.  So much deceptive double-speak.  The thing is, I don't necessarily think they even realize how deceptive they are being; I think they are just so well brainwashed in their Calvinist double-speak that they don't even recognize it as double-speak anymore.  Sad.] 

And I would suggest that Calvinists do this on purpose, strategically omitting the “types of” so that they can say “all … people.”  I think that, in their minds, they are not lying by omitting “types of” because at least the words they do use – “all … people” – are true. 

But as I said, I do thank you for taking the time to give a thoughtful, thorough, respectful answer.  For that, you have my respect as well.

[And to Fromoverhere: I agree with you and think your reply makes more sense.  But I’m sure you already realize that.  Thanks!]

Fromoverhere adds:

Calvinists: “Anyone can believe!!  As long as they are chosen."

Henry Ford:  "You can have your Model T in any color you want… as long as it’s black!"