Exposing Calvinism: The "plans of the Lord"/Child Sacrifice

In the comment section of Soteriology 101's post "Frustrated by the state of the world?", I pointed out that when a Calvinist says God "ordains" something, they mean that He "preplans/causes/controls" it.


The Calvinist Roland replied:

No, Heather, ... Calvinists read what the Bible says about God, believe what the Bible says about God, and teach what the Bible says about God.  It’s really not that difficult.  Also, ordained in Calvinism does not have the same meaning as “preplanned/caused/controlled.”

Blessed are those you choose and bring near to live in your courts. We are filled with the good things of your house, of your holy temple.  Psalm 65:4

"God chooses, God brings near" is a clear reading of Scripture.

But the plans of the Lord stand firm forever, the purposes of his heart through all generations.  Psalm 33:11

Our God is in heaven, he does whatever pleases him.  Psalm 115:3

The Lord does whatever pleases him, in heaven and on earth, in the seas and all their depths.  Psalm 135:6

No one can deliver out of my hand, When I act, who can reverse it?  Isaiah 43:13

... And Isaiah 10 doesn’t say God permits; it says God sends, gives, uses Assyria as a rod of anger, etc.



I replied to Roland:

Roland says: “Also, ordained in Calvinism does not have the same meaning as “preplanned/caused/controlled.”

In practice, it does.  Or maybe you’re saying that Calvinism’s god does not preplan, cause, control all things?

And yes, Psalm 33:11 says that the plans of the Lord stand firm forever.  But Psalm 33:10 says “The Lord foils the plans of the nations…”  If Calvinism is true that God controls everything in our hearts/wills/minds, then it would mean that God Himself puts the plans of the nations into the people’s heads, which means that they are really HIS plans, which means that He is foiling HIS OWN PLANS.  That is so nonsensical.  And self-defeating.  And then what are we to make of “the plans of the Lord stand firm forever”?  How can God’s plans stand firm forever if He foils His own plans!?!  If Calvinism is true, then we’re supposed to believe that God puts plans that He Himself made up into people’s heads … and then He foils them because of a different plan He had … and yet “His plans will stand forever”!?!  Which plans are those?  The plans He put into their heads?  His plans to foil them?  His new plan about what He’ll do with the foiled plans?  It’s so stupid!  The only right and logical way to understand this is that man makes up his own mind but that God can thwart what man decides – NOT that God controls what’s in man’s mind/will/heart.  This is the only way to make sense of how God can foil man’s plans but that His plans stand forever.

Maybe Calvinists are okay with singling out verses that say what they want, but I’d rather take Scripture as a whole!

And just because God plans things doesn’t mean everything was planned.  Just because all monkeys are animals doesn’t mean all animals are monkeys.  (Or are they, Roland?)

Same with Psalm 115:3 and 135:6, about God doing what He pleases.  Just because He does things He pleases doesn’t mean that everything that happens is because He was pleased to cause it.  Same with Isaiah 43:13, about no one being able to reverse God’s actions.  Just because no one can reverse an action He has done doesn’t mean He causes everything that happens.  And just because God sends/uses Assyria to discipline Israel doesn’t mean He caused Assyria to be wicked and to choose to do wicked things.  It just means He chose to work their wicked choices into His plans.

Calvinists add things to Scripture that aren’t there.

And I love how Calvinists build their theology on the verses Roland listed, but they ignore verses like these:

Hosea 8:4: “They set up kings without my consent; they choose princes without my approval.”

Isaiah 30:1: “Woe to the obstinate children,” declares the Lord, “to those who carry out plans that are not mine.”

Jeremiah 19:4-5, about the child sacrifice being done, God says it was “something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.”

1 Kings 20:42: “This is what the Lord says, ‘You have set free a man I had determined should die.'”

Acts 14:16: “In the past, [God] let all nations go their own way.”

Matthew 23:37: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem … how often I have longed to gather your children together … but you were not willing.”

Isaiah 65:12: “You did evil in my sight and chose what displeases me.”  (If God causes everything to happen because it pleases Him then how can He also cause something that displeases Him?)

Ezekiel 13:22 (KJV): "Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad ..."  And the CSB version puts it this way: "Because you have disheartened the righteous person with lies (when I intended no distress)..."  (In Calvinism, God would be the one who preplanned and ultimately caused people to lie to the righteous people.  He would have preplanned/intended to cause the righteous people to be disheartened, contradicting His claim that He never intended to do that.  And so either God lies or Calvinism lies.  Which one do you think it is?)

And all those verses (except Acts) are things God Himself says, not just something written about God in the Psalms.  And yet Calvinists ignore these verses in favor of the Psalms.

If Calvinists want to pick and choose a few “Calvinist-sounding” verses to build their theology on and if they want to add things the verses don’t say, then that’s their choice.  But I’d rather take Scripture as a whole and stick to what it says.



Rhutchin (a strong Calvinist) replies to the Jeremiah verse: “... Jeremiah can be read, 'something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind [to command or mention].'”



I reply:

And I agree.  It never entered God’s mind to command child sacrifice.  But Calvinists would have to say that it never entered His mind to command it, but that He did irresistibly decree it anyway.  That He didn’t command them to sacrifice their children, but He did predestine it and cause it to happen.  And so, Calvinists would say that the people can be held accountable for doing something God said not to do even though He predestined/caused them break His command.  (So they disobey God’s spoken command in obedience to His hidden decree!  Isn’t that really just a different form of obedience?)  And that’s the kind of god Calvinists love, honor, worship, and serve!

(I'll quote the replies that came after this comment in the next "Exposing Calvinism" post.)

Most Popular Posts Of The Month:

List of Calvinist Preachers, Authors, Theologians, Websites, etc.

I  found a lot more names to add to my list of known Calvinists (found in my various "How to Tell if a Church, Pastor, or Website is Calvinist" posts).  [FYI: I added a note at the bottom of this post on May 5, 2021.]    And so here it is, a "master list" of known Calvinists to help you be careful and discerning about who you listen to and where you get your theology from.  There are plenty more Calvinists out there, but these are just the names that I ran across the most.   These are either definite, self-professed Calvinists or "most likely Calvinists," in my estimation.  (I haven't heard of most of them, but it's good to know their theology before I do.)   After finding these names in various places online, I looked up each person to see if they are Calvinist.  If they did not self-identify as a Calvinist, I tried to figure it out based on the statements of faith of the groups/churches they belong to, the books they write, the things they say o
Read more

How to Tell if a Church, Pastor, or Website is Calvinist (simplified version)

(For the extended version of this post, which I recommend, click here .  It is loaded with lots more information.  This simplified one is just the highlights.  And feel free to copy this and share it with others, to help them learn to identify Calvinism when they see it.  Just make sure to share the link to this blog so that they can find the original post.  Thank you.  New : For the super-short version, click here .  And FYI: I found a couple times when the Calvinist author of an article I linked to changed their article after I linked to it.  So if their article doesn't seem to match what I said about it, it may be because they altered it. ) We just left our church of almost 20 years because of the dogmatic Calvinist pastor who recently came on board.  ( Read my "Letter to Our Elders Regarding Calvinism Growing in Our Church" here.)   And I was thinking about what precautions I might take to make sure we didn't end up in another Calvinist church (that is, whe
Read more

Is The ESV (English Standard Version) a Calvinist Bible?

Just in case anyone missed this post (the longer title made it easy to miss the "ESV" part) ... "A Random Verse That Destroys Calvinism (And "Is The ESV a Calvinist Bible?") In that post, I write about a bunch of verses that I believe were intentionally translated to be more Calvinistic (click on it to see the verses).   And why would I think that the translators of this Bible version would do that? (From that post...) The ESV and ESV Study Bible are majorly preferred by Calvinists.  In fact, it's often considered "The Calvinist Bible."   Why?  And why would translators of a Bible make these kinds of Calvinist tweaks to Scripture? Wayne Grudem and J.I. Packer were editors on the  ESV Study Bible   (this is for the ESV Global Study Bible).  Grudem and Packer are both popular, strong, dogmatic Calvinists.  Very Big Names in the world of Calvinism.  Grudem in the General Editor and Packer is the Theological Editor.  And there were other Calvinist
Read more

A Random Verse That Destroys Calvinism (And "Is The ESV a Calvinist Bible?")

(For just the "Is the ESV a Calvinist Bible" part of this post, click here .) In my normal Bible reading today, I came across a verse about "singleness vs. marriage" that destroys Calvinism in a few short words: "But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion but who has control over his own will, and who has made up his mind not to marry the virgin - this man also does the right thing."   ( 1 Corinthians 7:37, NIV ) When you get past all the layers Calvinism wraps itself in to disguise the bad parts, it ultimately teaches - at the heart of it all - that God causes/controls  everything , even controlling our wills and causing our sins.  (But He then punishes  us  for the things He caused us to do, which would make Him unjust, no matter how much Calvinists try to deny it and cover it up.  See  this post  for some links about that.)  Calvinism ultimately teaches that everything we do is because God preplanned it, ordai
Read more

Why Is Calvinism So Dangerous? (re-updated)

Image
Because it  appears  to teach biblical truth while actually teaching  the opposite  - while using  manipulation and cult-like tactics to suck you in!  And it's spreading.  Stealthily, fast, aggressively. (We watched it happen firsthand in our church, which is why I wrote this blog.  See  "What's the best way to make people agree with your Calvinist views?"    Sadly, we ended up  leaving that church , a place we attended almost 20 years.) [ I updated this November 2022 to try to shorten it.  I failed.  But I hope it's more readable and streamlined at least.   If you only read one anti-Calvinism post of mine, I think it should be this one.  But I'm warning you, this post is long.  Very long.  So pack a lunch and bring a sleeping bag.  But it has to be long because Calvinism is so deceptively convoluted that it takes time to peel off the layers so that you can see it for what it really is.  My hope is that with this one long post, I can show the deceptiveness of
Read more

Posts in the "Predestination vs. Free-Will" Series

I will post this at the beginning and end of the "Predestination vs. Free-Will" series.  (This is the beginning of it.)   These four are the really long posts that I broke up into smaller pieces for the series: Predestination Does Not Mean "No Choice" Controversial "Predestination" Verse Does Romans Teach Predestination? Does Ephesians Teach Predestination? These are the smaller posts of the "predestination vs. free-will" series, in order: Is Our Eternity Decided For Us? "Predestination vs. Free-Will" Overview Should "Predestination vs. Free-Will" Matter To Christians? Predestination Manipulation Does "In Control" Mean "Controlling Everything"? How Could A Loving God Condemn People To Hell? Sovereignty And Free-Will Working Together What Does "God Is Sovereign" Mean? Does God Cause Childhood Abuse?
Read more

Tony Evans Preaches on Prayer and God's Will

I am always thankful for Tony Evans' preaching.  He understands the Word and God's character correctly.  He preaches a view of God and Scripture that accurately reflects truth, that affects us and our faith in practical ways, that fills me with hope, and that  makes sense ! Unlike Calvinism.  Unlike my Calvinist pastor.   I have been so discouraged by the constant hammering of Calvinism at our church - the sick twisting of Scripture, the damaging distortion of God's good character and amazing gifts, the hopelessness that Calvinism is - that I don't listen to our pastor anymore.  Because when I did, it would leave me angry for days.  (Angry ... but motivated to see what the Bible really says.  So that's a good thing.) And so I listen to Tony Evans' sermons online instead.  And it feels like a breath of fresh air.  Like I can breathe again.  Like I am not so crazy for disagreeing with Calvinism.  Because Calvinism is wrong!   (I am sure there are other great preac
Read more

A Calvinist's best defense of their worst doctrine

Image
The following are parts of two sermons  given by the Calvinist pastor at my ex-church, about Romans 9 and predestination.   [I'd post a link to them, but if you know which church I attended then you'll know which town I live in, and I'm not ready to reveal that.  So you'll just have to trust me that this is what he said.  And for those who already know me or attend my ex-church, these sermons are from  June of 2016.  You  can look it up online if you want.] This was a little over 3 years after this new pastor was hired and brought in Calvinism, stealthy at first, then much more bold.  And by this point, I was done with him, really fed up and upset with his teaching, really alarmed.  Sadly, though, we stayed there listening to this garbage for 3 more years before we resigned our membership.  (But at least it gave me a lot of time to really hear and research what he was preaching.)   Notice that all these sermon sections contain are shaming, manipulation, deflection, bad
Read more

On this Good Friday

Take some time on this Good Friday to remember what Jesus went through to bring us forgiveness, to offer us all eternal life - and then thank Him for it.   Some great songs and videos about it: Jeremy Riddle's  "Sweetly Broken"   Cloverton's  "Christmas Hallelujah" Michael W. Smith's  "Secret Ambition" Crowder's  "I AM" The City Harmonic's  "Oh What Love" "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Jesus Christ. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood."  ( Romans 3:23-25 ) “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life   in Christ Jesus our Lord.”  ( Romans 6:23 ) “God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”   ( Romans 5:8 ) "This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us...."  ( 1
Read more

When Calvinism Infiltrates Your Church

A note I recently added to my posts on "How to tell if a Church, Pastor, or Website is Calvinist" : On a personal note : After having seen firsthand how Calvinism stealthily infiltrates and takes over a church, I want to share with you something that Kevin from Beyond the Fundamentals said in the video   "Stealth Calvinism in Oklahoma"  (my paraphrase): "By the time you realize what's going on and start looking up information about Calvinism online, it's too late."   Calvinist pastors who set out to take over non-Calvinist churches are banking on the fact that most people don't know what Calvinism is, giving the pastors plenty of time to weave in Calvinism in sneaky, subtle, tricksy ways before people catch on to (and research) the red flags.  (*See note at bottom about deceptive pastors.)  By that time, too many people in the church have been suckered into Calvinism (without realizing it's called Calvinism), believing that they're just
Read more