Calvinist Comments: A God of Love?

The next bunch of posts will show interactions between Calvinists and non-Calvinists from the comment sections of various Soteriology 101 posts (but they will be interspersed with my "Understanding God's Will" series).  It's interesting and informative to see the actual things that Calvinists themselves say about the Gospel and God.  (I made minor edits for clarity.)

This interaction is from "5 Reasons Why I Stayed Out of Calvinism":



A non-Calvinist, Graceadict, made this comment: "Calvinism creates a god that is NOT a god of love….”
And Calvinist Jtleosala responds: 

1. Then, your claim that God loves all humanity is a “decoy love,” after all not all humanity goes to heaven.

2. In Calvinism, God is love because He did not decide to let all humanity come to perish.  Instead, He choose to pick for himself a people of His own… 
Then Graceadict replies:

Regarding the topic: Is God a God of Love who authentically loves ALL of His Creation and provides for all of their Salvation while not forcing them to accept or reject it?  Does He authentically invite ALL to believe?  The consistent Calvinist would agree with Pink and say NO.  As Calvinist Arthur Pink says: “When we say God is Sovereign in the exercise of His Love, we mean that He loves who he chooses and God does NOT love everybody.”

It seems to me that Jtleosala is in agreement with Pink… and does not try to soft-pedal his position.  (I like that about you.  I disagree with you but at least you are not pretending that Calvinism's God loves All people, and you clearly hold that position.  You are brave to hold that so clearly.)

Jtleosala has written: “You will say.. because they refuse Christ’s offer.  But how can they receive the offer if it was not legitimately offered to them?  The reprobates go to hell because they have not been picked by God since before the foundation of the world.”

Now Jtleosala, you take issue with the fact that we (non-Calvinists) would say that is not a loving image and is not in harmony with God’s moral nature… You also say "In Calvinism, God is love because He did not decide to let all humanity come to perish.”

But ... In Calvinism, before anyone was created, God decided to create most people for Hell and Damnation.  He never intended to love them at anytime in Eternity past, Present or Future.

Here is what defending that looks like.  It looks like a lawyer tasked with the job of defending Hitler and making him look loving and kind even while you know the truth about Hitler.  The lawyer says “Hitler is very loving and kind, how dare you accuse Hitler of being hateful.  He helped his generals and some of his close relatives… SEE, that is proof that Hitler is a very kind and caring man.”  The jury hears that and agrees, "Yes, Hitler is the most loving and kind person that ever existed.”

However, you are a Jew and went through the concentration camps.  You had family members brutally killed just for being Jews, others raped just for being Jews, tortured, starved to death, others gassed, and still others were objects of experiments simply because they were Jews.  You stand to your feet and say "NO!  NO!  NO!  Hitler was not loving and kind and caring!"

The lawyer’s tactic was to ignore the 6 million Jews and just focus on a select few people to prove Hitler was Good and Kind.

 The problem I see with Calvinism is that it embraces a “Hitler-like god.”  And then to prove that their version is good, they only look at the select few people (the elect) and hold those up as examples of Love ... when in reality their “Hitler-like god” actually treats way more people WAY worse than Hitler ever treated the Jews.  Now they are left with the unenviable position of trying to spin their “Hitler-like god” into an image that can be said “He is a God of Genuine Love”.  They know their version of God is really Hitler-like.  So they have to focus on the few people that Hitler was nice to, and use that to prove “His Essential Nature is Love”.

Just like I would not call Hitler a Loving, Kind and Good man… I have an equally hard time seeing the Calvinist version of God any different.  We principally reject Calvinism because it distorts the moral nature of God.

Even you, Jteosala, cannot be sure that the CalvinGod loves you… because this version of God also has a secret Will that does not let you know if you are really loved by Him (really saved).  You might actually be one of the reprobates that He gives a temporary faith to but in the end takes it away so that your damnation might be even greater.




Looking again at Jtleosala's comment "1. Then, your claim that God loves all humanity is a “decoy love,” after all not all humanity goes to heaven.  2. In Calvinism, God is love because He did not decide to let all humanity come to perish. Instead, He choose to pick for himself a people of His own…”
My (Heather's) reply: 

 Two problems here:

1. You assume that God’s love necessarily means He saves you – that He HAS TO save those He loves and therefore He only really loves those He saves.  (Whereas the Bible shows that God demonstrates His love by paying for all sins on the cross, making salvation possible for all, so that anyone can choose to come to Him.  Calvinism tells God how God has to act in order to be God – instead of allowing God to decide for Himself how to act, as seen in numerous examples in the Bible.)

2. You say that God is love because He didn’t let all humanity perish, that He chose a group of people for Himself.  Yeah, that sounds nice and all … except for the fact that what Calvinism really teaches is that God didn’t just pick some people to save but that He created a whole bunch more people to hate, to cause to sin and be unbelievers, to never give a chance to be saved, to punish for the things He caused them to do, and to damn to hell for all of eternity, just because He wanted to.

If that’s what love looks like, I’d hate to see what hate looks like!

If that’s justice, I’d hate to see injustice!

If that’s how a holy and righteous God acts, I’d hate to see how an unholy and unrighteous Satan acts!

In fact, I don’t think Calvi-god is much different than Satan.  Hates people, deceives people, wants people in hell, causes people to sin … sounds like Satan to me!  (But at least you know what you’re getting with Satan. Not so with the two-faced Calvi-god.)



[Speaking of Hitler:  Check out this 4 minute video: Hitler and Calvinism.  Brilliant and gutsy.  It's something we'd love to show our Calvinist church, secretly projecting it on the screen behind the pastor as he teaches his Calvinist views.  That would be awesome!]

Most Popular Posts Of The Month:

List of Calvinist Preachers, Authors, Theologians, Websites, etc.

I  found a lot more names to add to my list of known Calvinists (found in my various "How to Tell if a Church, Pastor, or Website is Calvinist" posts).  [FYI: I added a note at the bottom of this post on May 5, 2021.]    And so here it is, a "master list" of known Calvinists to help you be careful and discerning about who you listen to and where you get your theology from.  There are plenty more Calvinists out there, but these are just the names that I ran across the most.   These are either definite, self-professed Calvinists or "most likely Calvinists," in my estimation.  (I haven't heard of most of them, but it's good to know their theology before I do.)   After finding these names in various places online, I looked up each person to see if they are Calvinist.  If they did not self-identify as a Calvinist, I tried to figure it out based on the statements of faith of the groups/churches they belong to, the books they write, the things they say o
Read more

Why Is Calvinism So Dangerous? (re-updated)

Image
Because it  appears  to teach biblical truth while actually teaching  the opposite  - while using  manipulation and cult-like tactics to suck you in!  And it's spreading.  Stealthily, fast, aggressively. (We watched it happen firsthand in our church, which is why I wrote this blog.  See  "What's the best way to make people agree with your Calvinist views?"    Sadly, we ended up  leaving that church , a place we attended almost 20 years.) [ I updated this November 2022 to try to shorten it.  I failed.  But I hope it's more readable and streamlined at least.   If you only read one anti-Calvinism post of mine, I think it should be this one.  But I'm warning you, this post is long.  Very long.  So pack a lunch and bring a sleeping bag.  But it has to be long because Calvinism is so deceptively convoluted that it takes time to peel off the layers so that you can see it for what it really is.  My hope is that with this one long post, I can show the deceptiveness of
Read more

Is The ESV (English Standard Version) a Calvinist Bible?

Just in case anyone missed this post (the longer title made it easy to miss the "ESV" part) ... "A Random Verse That Destroys Calvinism (And "Is The ESV a Calvinist Bible?") In that post, I write about a bunch of verses that I believe were intentionally translated to be more Calvinistic or based on manuscripts that were too corrupt to be trusted (click on it to see the verses).   And why would I think that the translators of this Bible version would do that? (From that post...) The ESV and ESV Study Bible are majorly preferred by Calvinists.  In fact, it's often considered "The Calvinist Bible."   Why?  And why would translators of a Bible make these kinds of Calvinist tweaks to Scripture? Wayne Grudem and J.I. Packer were editors on the  ESV Study Bible   (this is for the ESV Global Study Bible).  Grudem and Packer are both popular, strong, dogmatic Calvinists.  Very Big Names in the world of Calvinism.  Grudem in the General Editor and Packe
Read more

Leaving Calvinism: Comments from Ex-Calvinists #11

Here is the last of the ex-Calvinist testimonies.  The first one is from this post:  X-Calvinist Corner .   (It's an Arminian website, but I am not Arminian.)  I am going to highlight some of the comments that stood out to me the most.  If you want to read everything that everyone said, click on the link above: Dana Steele writes: I grew up in a Calvinistic Baptist church from age 11.  The 5-points of Calvinism (TULIP) were taught regularly with great enthusiasm ... But it wasn’t until college that I began to understand and embrace the “Doctrines of Grace” and TULIP more fully....  I also learned to love the doctrine of election because it meant that God loved me personally and specifically in a unique way.  Though it made me a little embarrassed to think that God did not love everyone this way, I was content to leave this as a mystery.  Who am I to question God?  I was just glad I was one of the lucky (I mean chosen) ones. ... [As A Calvinist]   I had developed a sense of theologi
Read more

As evil as it gets: Calvinism on babies and the unreached

Image
[A.k.a: Snippets to Ponder, part 4 (#19-20).  This is such a long "snippet" - too many horrific quotes, couldn't resist adding them - that I decided to just make it a whole post.  (I might break this down into smaller pieces in future posts.)  Topics in this post: Calvinism, babies, and unreached people. Click here for snippets  part 1 , part 2 , and  part 3 .] #19: Calvinist comments about babies   [ buckle up, hang on tight, and have a barf-bag ready] : About the suffering and abuse of babies and children:   [ And remember that these are not my words.  These are Calvinist's own words , and so you can see that we are not misrepresenting them or putting words in their mouths.  This is hard stuff to read.  Really hard.  But you need to read it.  To know that they really do teach this garbage.  (And "garbage" is the nice word.  I was gonna use a stronger one.  Oh, yes, I was!  Note: A ll bold emphasis in all quotes has been added by me. )] a.  Gordan H. Clark
Read more

The Cult of Calvinism

Here are links to a few posts that reveal the cult-like side of Calvinism: "Why Calvinism is a Cult" "Calvinism is a Counterfeit Christian Cult" "Calvinism, Cults, and Control" I left a comment at Hoppers Crossing Christian Church about their post "Calvinism, Cults, and Control."  I will also print my comment here for your information: I was reading your post "Calvinism, Cults, and Control" (2/02/20) and so much of what you said fits the Calvinist church we recently left.  Here are some of the cult-like things that happened after a Calvinist pastor took over our non-Calvinist church: 1.   From the beginning, he started laying the groundwork that disagreement with him (about his Calvinist view of predestination and God's sovereignty, in particular) was not allowed and that anyone who did disagree with him was unhumble and disagreeing with God.   Things like (paraphrases): "Humble people have no problem with God's sovereignty
Read more

When Calvinism Infiltrates Your Church

A note I recently added to my posts on "How to tell if a Church, Pastor, or Website is Calvinist" : On a personal note : After having seen firsthand how Calvinism stealthily infiltrates and takes over a church, I want to share with you something that Kevin from Beyond the Fundamentals said in the video   "Stealth Calvinism in Oklahoma"  (my paraphrase): "By the time you realize what's going on and start looking up information about Calvinism online, it's too late."   Calvinist pastors who set out to take over non-Calvinist churches are banking on the fact that most people don't know what Calvinism is, giving the pastors plenty of time to weave in Calvinism in sneaky, subtle, tricksy ways before people catch on to (and research) the red flags.  (*See note at bottom about deceptive pastors.)  By that time, too many people in the church have been suckered into Calvinism (without realizing it's called Calvinism), believing that they're just
Read more

A Random Verse That Destroys Calvinism (And "Is The ESV a Calvinist Bible?")

(For just the "Is the ESV a Calvinist Bible" part of this post, click here .) In my normal Bible reading today, I came across a verse about "singleness vs. marriage" that destroys Calvinism in a few short words: "But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion but who has control over his own will, and who has made up his mind not to marry the virgin - this man also does the right thing."   ( 1 Corinthians 7:37, NIV ) When you get past all the layers Calvinism wraps itself in to disguise the bad parts, it ultimately teaches - at the heart of it all - that God causes/controls  everything , even controlling our wills and causing our sins.  (But He then punishes  us  for the things He caused us to do, which would make Him unjust, no matter how much Calvinists try to deny it and cover it up.  See  this post  for some links about that.)  Calvinism ultimately teaches that everything we do is because God preplanned it, ordai
Read more

How to Tell if a Church, Pastor, or Website is Calvinist (simplified version)

(For the extended version of this post, which I recommend, click here .  It is loaded with lots more information.  This simplified one is just the highlights.  And feel free to copy this and share it with others, to help them learn to identify Calvinism when they see it.  Just make sure to share the link to this blog so that they can find the original post.  Thank you.  New : For the super-short version, click here .  And FYI: I found a couple times when the Calvinist author of an article I linked to changed their article after I linked to it.  So if their article doesn't seem to match what I said about it, it may be because they altered it. ) We just left our church of almost 20 years because of the dogmatic Calvinist pastor who recently came on board.  ( Read my "Letter to Our Elders Regarding Calvinism Growing in Our Church" here.)   And I was thinking about what precautions I might take to make sure we didn't end up in another Calvinist church (that is, whe
Read more

The Bible vs. Calvinism: An Overview by Patrick Myers (a great resource)

A friend of mine recently sent me a link to an article that she says is one of the best overviews of Calvinism and its errors that she's read.  And after reading it, I agree.  I think it's a great one to share with others because it's got all the basics in one place: The Bible vs. Calvinism: An Overview by Patrick Myers There are some great rebuttals to Calvinist proof-texts in here, and some eye-opening quotes from Calvinists.  Something like this might help Calvinists understand what their theology really teaches and what the Bible really  teaches - and that these aren't saying the same thing.   FYI: If you click on the "about/contact" link at the bottom of the article, you can send him an email to request a PDF copy of his article.   And after I contacted him by email to tell him how much I appreciated his article, he graciously put a link to my blog at the bottom.  Thank you, Patrick, that was very kind of you. 😊
Read more