Things My Calvinist Pastor Said #9: God Shows His Justice By Predestining People To Hell
(This "Things My Calvinist Pastor Said" series is a breakdown of this much longer post: "We Left Our Church Because of Calvinism," which was written last year but updated July 2020. They are almost exact quotes. All memes were created with imgflip.)
9. "God shows His love by saving the elect. And He shows His justice by damning the non-elect to hell." (From my pastor's adult son, not my ex-pastor himself.)
That's strange, because my Bible says that God shows His love by saving sinners (Romans 5:8), that we are all sinners (Romans 3:23), and that God shows His justice by sending Jesus to the cross to pay for our sins (Romans 3:25-26).
Actually, what really happened was this (taken from another post of mine on this topic, edited a bit):
My pastor's adult son (the creepy guy, who stares over his glasses and slowly points at the congregation as he preaches that "no one should question God's sovereignty," meaning that "no one should question my Calvinist daddy's view of God's sovereignty") wrote a post on this once, essentially saying that God shows off His justice by predestining the non-elect to hell and that He shows off His love by choosing to save some people, the "elect."
But I say ... WRONG!
We end up in hell not because He sends us there but because He allows us to make our own decision about if we want a relationship with Him or not. He allows us to choose heaven (life/eternity with Him) or hell (life/eternity without Him).
In the pastor's son's post, he started from the premise that when the Bible says God hardens hearts and blinds eyes, it means that God arbitrarily does it. That He does it all on His own, for some reason or other, with no influence from the person He's hardening or blinding. (Question: Why in the world would God need to harden unregenerated people who are totally depraved, who are "so totally dead" that they can't even think about Him or seek Him anyway?)
But biblically, according the Bible and concordance, when God hardens hearts and blinds eyes, it's because the people first did it themselves. God just makes their decision permanent at some point, as punishment for their constant rejection of Him, and He uses it for His plans. But it was their choice first. (Also see "Prepared for Destruction/Hard Hearts? A Look at Romans 9.")
But anyway, this guy started with his Calvinist view that God chooses whom to harden all on His own, through no fault of the people. And then he wonders how God could do this. How could God prevent people from understanding the truth when He says He wants them to be saved?
You can't get to the right answer if you start with a wrong assumption.
And then, after "two weeks of processing it," alone and with others, this is the result of his "ponderings":
God hardens people because His main goal, even above being famous (as you'll see his daddy say in a later point), is self-worship and self-love. This guy says that people's salvation is not of primary importance to God, because His focus is on being worshipped. (He's essentially saying that humans are dispensable, only worth the self-worship God gets through us.) And predestining people to hell is how God worships Himself for how just He is, and electing some people to heaven is how He worships Himself for how loving He is. And we should be singing God's praises even more for doing this, since it's all about God getting more worship.
[What kind of garbage is this!?! And notice that it's his self-proclaimed "ponderings." He's basing the Bible on his own musings.
And apparently, Calvi-god is way more "just" than loving, because the vast majority of people are predestined to hell while only a very few got picked for heaven. No wonder Calvinist pastors barely preach on God's love. Because Calvi-god barely has any.
I realized, after we left our church, that part of the reason my soul was dying there was because there was almost no preaching about God's love for us, no help in building our relationship with the Lord, no practical ways to apply the Bible's messages.
It was all lofty, theological, incorrect garbage about how God is all about His glory and sovereignty, and how we are all so evil and wicked and rebellious and incapable, and how He can do whatever He wants with us, and how we had better just humbly accept it and praise Him for it.
Frickin' dead, lifeless, soul-sucking, faith-killing, God-dishonoring garbage!
And no, I do not apologize for my harsh attitude towards such a horrendous, evil, backwards theology that tries to pass itself off as so godly, biblical, and God-honoring. I think it's demonic and deserves to be treated as such!
Also see "Is God Only Concerned About His Glory and Being Famous?" and "Are We Only Here For God's Glory? What About His Love?" and "The Devil Made Me Do It."]
But biblically, God doesn’t exactly “condemn people to hell,” for any particular reason, whether to show off His justice or to show the elect how loved they are compared to the non-elect (as some Calvinists say) or to worship Himself more.
But He does reluctantly allow us to go there ourselves.
"But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath against yourself..." (Romans 2:5)
"But they were broken off because of unbelief ... And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in ..." (Romans 11:20,23)
The thing is, we are all born on the path to hell, already separated from God. ("Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already..." John 3:18) So He does not put any of us on the path to hell. We are already on it. But He has been desperately calling to all of us – to any who will listen and believe - trying to get as many of us off of that path as He can.
It's like being caught in a rushing stream headed for hell - all of us - and we can't get ourselves out, but God Himself is reaching down and offering to pull out anyone who wants to get out of that stream.
But we have to reach up and grab onto His hand!
And if we don't, we inevitably end up riding that stream to where it's headed. Hell!
So He does not condemn people to hell in order to celebrate His love or justness (or even to "punish" us); He simply allows us to stay on the path to hell if we choose to, if we do not accept His help off of that path. He's trying to spare us the punishment of hell because He's already paid for our punishment, and so we don't have to be punished anymore.
His desire is to have all people come to Him. The penalty for our sins has been paid by Jesus for all people. He reaches out His hand to all people. But He does not force us to take it. He knocks on the doors of all hearts, but we have to open the door and let Him in.
So, no, God does not show off His justice or love by sending people to hell! (Find me the verse that says this!)
And I can say this boldly and emphatically (as opposed to Creepy Guy's philosophical rambling as he attempted to make the Bible fits his Calvinist views, to shove his Calvinism in where it doesn't belong) ... because the Bible itself tells us what God did to show His justice and His love. And it isn't predestining people for hell.
To demonstrate His justness and His love, He sent Jesus to the cross to pay the penalty that mankind owes for our sins.
At least, that's what my Bible says!
“God demonstrates his love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8, emphasis added)
But Calvinists will say that Romans 5:8's "While we were still sinners, Christ died for us" means only the elected sinners. They'll say that Romans 3:26's "those who have faith in Jesus" means "the elect," meaning that Jesus died to justify only the elect.
And where is the verse that supports this stuff? Where is the verse that says there are two different classes of sinners, elected ones and non-elected ones? Where is the verse that says "those who have faith in Jesus" means they have faith only because God elected them and gave them faith, instead of that they chose to have faith, that anyone can have faith? (Jesus died for all men so that all could be justified, but only those who accept Jesus as Lord and Savior will be able to experience that justification. Everyone else misses out, by choice, because they rejected Jesus' payment for their sins.)
Guess what?
There aren't any verses to support that nonsense!
But there is a verse about Jesus' death, about "justification," buying life for all men (coming up below).
And there is a verse about who God loves. It's called "John 3:16" and it starts like this: "For God so loved the world..." And so, therefore, when God says He demonstrates His love, He means His love for "the world," for all people, not just some "elected" people. For God so loved the world, and in His love, Jesus died for us all.
So Calvinists, you are WRONG!
God Himself says that He shows His justice by sending Jesus to the cross to pay for our sins.
And God Himself says that He shows His love by sending Jesus to the cross to pay for our sins.
And by this demonstration of His justice and love, we are now free to be justified, to have our sins wiped away in God’s eyes. If we let Jesus’ sacrificial death pay the penalty we owe. If we place our faith in Him.
And this offer is for all people!
"For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all." (Romans 11:32. However, Calvinists will change the meaning of the word "all" to suit their views, saying "all men" are bound over to disobedience but that God only has mercy on "all the elect." But is that what this verse is truly saying? Can we change the meaning of God's Words to fit our whims?)
"Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men." (Romans 5:18) and "For as in Adam all die, so as in Christ all will be made alive." (1 Corinthians 15:22) (Same issue here. Calvinists will say all men were affected by Adam's trespass, but that Jesus's death only bought life for all the elect. It's the same word, but Calvinists give it different meanings, even in the same verse, to fit their cult-ish, heretical theology.)
God's holiness and sense of justice demanded that payment for our sins be made. But because of His love for us, He paid the penalty Himself ... so that we could live. God's justice does not condemn people to hell. God's justice spared us, putting Jesus in our place.
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." (John 3:16-18)
Jesus' death paid the price for all sinners. Period. And since we are all sinners, that means He paid the price for all of us. Because of His justice and because of His love.
Life has been bought for all people.
But we have to accept it, the payment He made on our behalf.
And if refuse God's offer, then we choose to put our faith in ourselves and we will pay the penalty we owe, a penalty that is spiritual death. An eternity separated from God. Hell!
But always remember that it is because of our own resistant, unbelieving hearts that we end up in hell, not because God predestined people to hell, trying to show off His justice and love.
It is because of His justice and His love that we all actually have the chance to be saved from hell. The penalty has already been paid.
Will we accept it on our behalf?
[And if you need further biblical proof that God means "all" when He says "all":
"And he died for all ..." (2 Corinthians 5:15, emphasis is mine in all these verses)
"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men." (Titus 2:11)
"This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men..." (1 Timothy 2:3-5)
"He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9b)
I don't really know how the Bible could be more clear. And I can't understand how Calvinists could be so blind.]
(The above point was taken from this post: "How Could A Loving God Condemn People To Hell?")
9. "God shows His love by saving the elect. And He shows His justice by damning the non-elect to hell." (From my pastor's adult son, not my ex-pastor himself.)
That's strange, because my Bible says that God shows His love by saving sinners (Romans 5:8), that we are all sinners (Romans 3:23), and that God shows His justice by sending Jesus to the cross to pay for our sins (Romans 3:25-26).
Actually, what really happened was this (taken from another post of mine on this topic, edited a bit):
My pastor's adult son (the creepy guy, who stares over his glasses and slowly points at the congregation as he preaches that "no one should question God's sovereignty," meaning that "no one should question my Calvinist daddy's view of God's sovereignty") wrote a post on this once, essentially saying that God shows off His justice by predestining the non-elect to hell and that He shows off His love by choosing to save some people, the "elect."
But I say ... WRONG!
God does not send people to hell to show off His justness or demonstrate His love by only choosing to save a few people.
We end up in hell not because He sends us there but because He allows us to make our own decision about if we want a relationship with Him or not. He allows us to choose heaven (life/eternity with Him) or hell (life/eternity without Him).
In the pastor's son's post, he started from the premise that when the Bible says God hardens hearts and blinds eyes, it means that God arbitrarily does it. That He does it all on His own, for some reason or other, with no influence from the person He's hardening or blinding. (Question: Why in the world would God need to harden unregenerated people who are totally depraved, who are "so totally dead" that they can't even think about Him or seek Him anyway?)
But biblically, according the Bible and concordance, when God hardens hearts and blinds eyes, it's because the people first did it themselves. God just makes their decision permanent at some point, as punishment for their constant rejection of Him, and He uses it for His plans. But it was their choice first. (Also see "Prepared for Destruction/Hard Hearts? A Look at Romans 9.")
But anyway, this guy started with his Calvinist view that God chooses whom to harden all on His own, through no fault of the people. And then he wonders how God could do this. How could God prevent people from understanding the truth when He says He wants them to be saved?
You can't get to the right answer if you start with a wrong assumption.
And then, after "two weeks of processing it," alone and with others, this is the result of his "ponderings":
God hardens people because His main goal, even above being famous (as you'll see his daddy say in a later point), is self-worship and self-love. This guy says that people's salvation is not of primary importance to God, because His focus is on being worshipped. (He's essentially saying that humans are dispensable, only worth the self-worship God gets through us.) And predestining people to hell is how God worships Himself for how just He is, and electing some people to heaven is how He worships Himself for how loving He is. And we should be singing God's praises even more for doing this, since it's all about God getting more worship.
[What kind of garbage is this!?! And notice that it's his self-proclaimed "ponderings." He's basing the Bible on his own musings.
And apparently, Calvi-god is way more "just" than loving, because the vast majority of people are predestined to hell while only a very few got picked for heaven. No wonder Calvinist pastors barely preach on God's love. Because Calvi-god barely has any.
I realized, after we left our church, that part of the reason my soul was dying there was because there was almost no preaching about God's love for us, no help in building our relationship with the Lord, no practical ways to apply the Bible's messages.
It was all lofty, theological, incorrect garbage about how God is all about His glory and sovereignty, and how we are all so evil and wicked and rebellious and incapable, and how He can do whatever He wants with us, and how we had better just humbly accept it and praise Him for it.
Frickin' dead, lifeless, soul-sucking, faith-killing, God-dishonoring garbage!
And no, I do not apologize for my harsh attitude towards such a horrendous, evil, backwards theology that tries to pass itself off as so godly, biblical, and God-honoring. I think it's demonic and deserves to be treated as such!
Also see "Is God Only Concerned About His Glory and Being Famous?" and "Are We Only Here For God's Glory? What About His Love?" and "The Devil Made Me Do It."]
But biblically, God doesn’t exactly “condemn people to hell,” for any particular reason, whether to show off His justice or to show the elect how loved they are compared to the non-elect (as some Calvinists say) or to worship Himself more.
But He does reluctantly allow us to go there ourselves.
"But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath against yourself..." (Romans 2:5)
"But they were broken off because of unbelief ... And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in ..." (Romans 11:20,23)
The thing is, we are all born on the path to hell, already separated from God. ("Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already..." John 3:18) So He does not put any of us on the path to hell. We are already on it. But He has been desperately calling to all of us – to any who will listen and believe - trying to get as many of us off of that path as He can.
It's like being caught in a rushing stream headed for hell - all of us - and we can't get ourselves out, but God Himself is reaching down and offering to pull out anyone who wants to get out of that stream.
But we have to reach up and grab onto His hand!
And if we don't, we inevitably end up riding that stream to where it's headed. Hell!
So He does not condemn people to hell in order to celebrate His love or justness (or even to "punish" us); He simply allows us to stay on the path to hell if we choose to, if we do not accept His help off of that path. He's trying to spare us the punishment of hell because He's already paid for our punishment, and so we don't have to be punished anymore.
His desire is to have all people come to Him. The penalty for our sins has been paid by Jesus for all people. He reaches out His hand to all people. But He does not force us to take it. He knocks on the doors of all hearts, but we have to open the door and let Him in.
So, no, God does not show off His justice or love by sending people to hell! (Find me the verse that says this!)
And I can say this boldly and emphatically (as opposed to Creepy Guy's philosophical rambling as he attempted to make the Bible fits his Calvinist views, to shove his Calvinism in where it doesn't belong) ... because the Bible itself tells us what God did to show His justice and His love. And it isn't predestining people for hell.
To demonstrate His justness and His love, He sent Jesus to the cross to pay the penalty that mankind owes for our sins.
At least, that's what my Bible says!
“God presented [Jesus] as a sacrifice of atonement through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished- he did it [sent Jesus to the cross for our sins] to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.” (Romans 3:25-26, emphasis added)
“God demonstrates his love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8, emphasis added)
I see nothing in here about God demonstrating His love or justness by predestining people to hell or electing only some people for heaven. Or about God doing this to worship Himself more. (If we end up in hell, it's by our choice to reject God's offer of salvation, not because God predestined anyone to go there.)
But Calvinists will say that Romans 5:8's "While we were still sinners, Christ died for us" means only the elected sinners. They'll say that Romans 3:26's "those who have faith in Jesus" means "the elect," meaning that Jesus died to justify only the elect.
And where is the verse that supports this stuff? Where is the verse that says there are two different classes of sinners, elected ones and non-elected ones? Where is the verse that says "those who have faith in Jesus" means they have faith only because God elected them and gave them faith, instead of that they chose to have faith, that anyone can have faith? (Jesus died for all men so that all could be justified, but only those who accept Jesus as Lord and Savior will be able to experience that justification. Everyone else misses out, by choice, because they rejected Jesus' payment for their sins.)
Guess what?
There aren't any verses to support that nonsense!
But there is a verse about Jesus' death, about "justification," buying life for all men (coming up below).
And there is a verse about who God loves. It's called "John 3:16" and it starts like this: "For God so loved the world..." And so, therefore, when God says He demonstrates His love, He means His love for "the world," for all people, not just some "elected" people. For God so loved the world, and in His love, Jesus died for us all.
So Calvinists, you are WRONG!
God Himself says that He shows His justice by sending Jesus to the cross to pay for our sins.
And God Himself says that He shows His love by sending Jesus to the cross to pay for our sins.
And by this demonstration of His justice and love, we are now free to be justified, to have our sins wiped away in God’s eyes. If we let Jesus’ sacrificial death pay the penalty we owe. If we place our faith in Him.
And this offer is for all people!
"For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all." (Romans 11:32. However, Calvinists will change the meaning of the word "all" to suit their views, saying "all men" are bound over to disobedience but that God only has mercy on "all the elect." But is that what this verse is truly saying? Can we change the meaning of God's Words to fit our whims?)
"Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men." (Romans 5:18) and "For as in Adam all die, so as in Christ all will be made alive." (1 Corinthians 15:22) (Same issue here. Calvinists will say all men were affected by Adam's trespass, but that Jesus's death only bought life for all the elect. It's the same word, but Calvinists give it different meanings, even in the same verse, to fit their cult-ish, heretical theology.)
God's holiness and sense of justice demanded that payment for our sins be made. But because of His love for us, He paid the penalty Himself ... so that we could live. God's justice does not condemn people to hell. God's justice spared us, putting Jesus in our place.
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." (John 3:16-18)
Jesus' death paid the price for all sinners. Period. And since we are all sinners, that means He paid the price for all of us. Because of His justice and because of His love.
Life has been bought for all people.
But we have to accept it, the payment He made on our behalf.
And if refuse God's offer, then we choose to put our faith in ourselves and we will pay the penalty we owe, a penalty that is spiritual death. An eternity separated from God. Hell!
But always remember that it is because of our own resistant, unbelieving hearts that we end up in hell, not because God predestined people to hell, trying to show off His justice and love.
It is because of His justice and His love that we all actually have the chance to be saved from hell. The penalty has already been paid.
Will we accept it on our behalf?
[And if you need further biblical proof that God means "all" when He says "all":
"And he died for all ..." (2 Corinthians 5:15, emphasis is mine in all these verses)
"This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men..." (1 Timothy 2:3-5)
"He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9b)
I don't really know how the Bible could be more clear. And I can't understand how Calvinists could be so blind.]
